Why I think the Fake Death Theory has Plot Holes!!!

[lol]

*WARNING* DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN FILE 802 SPOILER PICS YET!!

If you've seen the spoiler pics for file 802 then....

Spoiler:

It is pretty much revealed that Akai is Okyia. I didn't agree with the theories that suggested that simply because I think that the "Fake Death" theory would lead plot inconsistencies if Gosho was to go with it. Honestly, I hope he surprises us with something different that doesn't have as many uncertainties. I summarized some of the points I don't buy in the akai fake death theory below:

1- How did Akai predict that the BO were going to order Kir to kill him straight away? What if they interrogated her for some while first then ordered her to kill him for example? How could he have set up Rikumichi Kusuda's body then if it had taken longer for them to issue the order? He can't keep a dead man's body in his car longer than a day or two at most. I know you might say the he has experience with the BO and he dealt with them before, but that isn't "GOSHO STYLE" as it is based on probability and chance. We know Gosho is very meticulous in his stories so he wouldn't let a crucial plot-related trick like that be based on whether the BO would order her to kill him in the next few days or not.

2- Again another thing that is based on chance and doesn't fit with Gosho's style, How did they predict camera's being involved? I know they agreed to meet alone and the BO would know that Akai will arrive early to scout for traps but how did he know they won't ambush the scene after the first shot? How did he predict that Gin's won't ambush the scene to make sure he was dead in person or plant the bomb himself for example? He would have had time to do that before the police arrived if he picked a suitable hiding place.

3- Why bother using a fake blood packet on the back of his head when it won't show on camera? The only camera angle available to the BO was frontal view. And if they weren't sure from which angle they will be seeing them then again that proves that it is all based on chance and isn't a trusted plan that is worth risking his life for. Pics for the camera angle is shown below.



4- Rikumichi’s body didn't have a lung shot. If the BO looked into the forensics report they would instantly discover the trick. And stealing police documents isn't without precedent for the BO (stealing the Mouri-related case files in the Vermouth arc). Some would say Akai planted a shot to Rikumichi’s lung, but that will be addressed in my next point.

5- How would Conan and Akai plan shooting a dead corpse in the lungs and set it up in a bombed car to fake akai's death. Gosho centres the Conan and Akai characters around morals and justice, For me doing that to a dead corpse, even if a former BO member, is unacceptable and something the Conan we him would never approve of.

6- The BO must have searched kir before and after the whole thing, so it is almost impossible for her to change the bullets in the gun Gin gave her to fake bullets. And if they are as cautious as we know, they must have inspected the Gun after that as well and fake bullets don't contain gun powder which is something they would pick up on. Also, shooting a fake bullet to the head from a very close range like the second shot is extremely dangerous and might actually kill him.

7- There is a very weird line that Akai THOUGHT to himself after seeing the porche. SEE 6:53 in the next video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcKhgywR8hk
If Akai and Kir planned for all this to happen then why was akai surprised and thought "Porsche 356A.....so that's how it is"? And we know he wasn't putting on an act for the camera as he didn't say it out loud. Also while Kir is planting the bomb she thinks "Please, don't think badly of me" which insinuates that she was forced to do something she didn't want to.

8- The last Point Finally *Breathing Heavily* Watch 8:22 to 8:55 in the next video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcKhgywR8hk
It is clearly seen that the blood on his Shirt is there when kir set the bomb with 29 seconds to go. How could he set up a double body and escape in 29 seconds, maybe it really was him because in the manga we can't see if the blood is there because of the black and white. Moreover, they were using a wireless camera, so the BO had their eyes on the monitor until 29 seconds to go. As for the blood trail out of his mouth, we see it clearly at 8:21 but it disappears at 8:33 while the blood is pouring from the back of his head. Then it was Akai for sure who was there. As for the reason it disappeared, that remains unknown.

You can say that Gosho will use the dramatic license or "I am drawing a freaking manga not real-life" license to just ignore these points and just say that Akai predicted the BO moves perfectly even though there was a very good chance they would have moved differently. But I would be very disappointed if that happened because Conan as a series has always been logical detail-wise. So I am really hoping he would give us a logical explanation to all the little bits and pieces if he goes with that theory or JUST SURPRISE US WITH A DIFFERENT MIND-BLOWING PLAN WITH NO UNCERTAINTIES. Or he was just

Spoiler:

messing with our heads in file 802 to keep the suspense going and Akai really did die for all we know 

Thanks for reading this, If you actually made it till here. Let me know what you think!

[Wakarimashita]

Interesting post, you have some valid points (and some which aren't, like the 29 seconds in the anime. The anime should never be used as a reference). Personally, I'm still hoping Akai is dead, but I doubt that's the case, unfortunately.

[User 4869]

1 You pretty much answer your own question here. Two things that explian this are
Akai know how BO work.
Kir said only someone as good as holmes could predict the whole thing and set a trap for Gin's eyes, that mean Conan.
But it understandable that you find these points too weak, while some are happy with it.

2 I kow you know I know. Gin said getting near will alert Akai= Akai know Gin won't getting near

3 When Kir bent her body to plant the bomb she must see Akai's head. Not shown in the manga though.

4+5
- BO busy celebrating so they didn't check
- A matter of saving someone life should come first.

6 About search, it was discussed before. Sadly I don't know what the conclusion they got.
About checking gunpowder, she could fire a gun before the event, or iirc, even the fake bullet has gunpowder.
About shoot fake bullet up close. Gosho may jusy ignore that. LoL

7 I could not explain Akai's line either. IIRC the manga say along the line of "To think you come thins far to get me". But I actually trust the anime more.
As for Kir's line. She said to
Kusuda= for use his body
Other FBI = for taking them their agent (Akai) temporary.
Akai = If she not in the plan and believe she really kill Akai

8 How can he escape? Set up some trick to get Kusuda's body in place quickly. May be he do Camel's stunt and jump out of the car exactly when the car explode, to the valley below. Pull of Heiji' stunt and grab random tree, wait until Conan arrive to save him with Kid's hanglider.

I going to throw in this article for good measure.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... ath_theory

But you probably already read it.

[lol]

1 You pretty much answer your own question here. Two things that explian this are
Akai know how BO work.
Kir said only someone as good as holmes could predict the whole thing and set a trap for Gin's eyes, that mean Conan.
But it understandable that you find these points too weak, while some are happy with it.

2 I kow you know I know. Gin said getting near will alert Akai= Akai know Gin won't getting near

3 When Kir bent her body to plant the bomb she must see Akai's head. Not shown in the manga though.

4+5
- BO busy celebrating so they didn't check
- A matter of saving someone life should come first.

6 About search, it was discussed before. Sadly I don't know what the conclusion they got.
About checking gunpowder, she could fire a gun before the event, or iirc, even the fake bullet has gunpowder.
About shoot fake bullet up close. Gosho may jusy ignore that. LoL

7 I could not explain Akai's line either. IIRC the manga say along the line of "To think you come thins far to get me". But I actually trust the anime more.
As for Kir's line. She said to
Kusuda= for use his body
Other FBI = for taking them their agent (Akai) temporary.
Akai = If she not in the plan and believe she really kill Akai

8 How can he escape? Set up some trick to get Kusuda's body in place quickly. May be he do Camel's stunt and jump out of the car exactly when the car explode, to the valley below. Pull of Heiji' stunt and grab random tree, wait until Conan arrive to save him with Kid's hanglider.

I going to throw in this article for good measure.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... ath_theory

But you probably already read it.

No I haven't read it before, I just knew about it a long time ago from the spoiler Cbox, and you're argument is verifies my point, "Akai knows how the BO work" and "Akai knows Gin" isn't good enough. A plan this big has to be based on precise predictions. And as for the Akai's line, Gosho changed the line in the volume to "that's how it is" from the line you mentioned which was put in the Shonen Sunday version. In addition, saving someone but blowing up another man's dead corpse is just wrong. I could never see Conan approving of a body double stunt. That's why as a guy whose been watching DC since as long as I can remember, I just don't buy this theory for the reasons I mentioned and DC would lose some of its uniqueness as far as I'm concerned if Gosho went with that! 

[User 4869]

"Akai knows how the BO work" and "Akai knows Gin" isn't good enough<<<<
It good enoug for me. As mention before people usually value each and everything differently.

A plan this big has to be based on precise predictions.<<<
Or Akai ready to die to help Kir (or she dies instead), but try to save his own life if he has the chance.

- Remember the desperate revival arc? Conan intentionally drop glowing watch in the road he going to take, predict that the robbers will go other way, If the robbers are less smart. Conan and DB dies.


Thank for verifying about that Akai's line

In addition, saving someone but blowing up another man's dead corpse is just wrong.<<<
Screwed the live, save the dead? I really fail to see your point. There are those who ate fellow crewmen corpse out of hunger in a desert island.

I could never see Conan approving of a body double stunt<<<
I simply can.

[lol]

I never meant "good enough" as in a personal perspective. It ISN'T good enough in the world Gosho created in his series. It is simply inconsistent, it is like Conan narrowing down the suspects to two and then picking one of them to accuse of the murder. Everything has to be well explained meticulously, that's what makes DC so unique. If someone asks Akai after he is revealed alive "How did you foresee all this and planned accordingly?" and he said "I know how the BO work" will just be 5 years of foreshadowing and suspense thrown away in a second. And you simply can't use a dead guy's corpse to carry out your plan, again doesn't fit in with Conan's personality at all. If you can "simply" see him approving it then maybe it is just me!

[User 4869]

I have nothing new to say now.

[lol]

I never meant "good enough" as in a personal perspective. It ISN'T good enough in the world Gosho created in his series. It is simply inconsistent, it is like Conan narrowing down the suspects to two and then picking one of them to accuse of the murder. Everything has to be well explained meticulously, that's what makes DC so unique. If someone asks Akai after he is revealed alive "How did you foresee all this and planned accordingly?" and he said "I know how the BO work" will just be 5 years of foreshadowing and suspense thrown away in a second. And you simply can't use a dead guy's corpse to carry out your plan, again doesn't fit in with Conan's personality at all. If you can "simply" see him approving it then maybe it is just me!

*Wins* loool, no really I am just saying I hope Gosho gives us a more fitting and more exciting plan than this one!

[avalanche]

*Wins* loool, no really I am just saying I hope Gosho gives us a more fitting and more exciting plan than this one!

He probably will, don't worry. We don't have much information now to accurately know how he faked his death, and that's why you feel that there are plot holes and that it's not coherent to Gosho's style, but if Akai is alive (which he most likely is), I'm sure Gosho will explain the whole situation in a more convincing way when we find out the true.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

1
He didn't know Kir would kill him right away, and according to my typical version of the fake death plan (lol if you haven't read this you are going to want to, because I assume you have and know the basic arguments. Otherwise it will seem like I am referencing things from nowhere.), it doesn't matter when it happens, so long as it is a bit dark, so that isn't a contradiction. He is in a hospital, so there is a morgue where Rikumichi's body can hang out for a nice long time (it was probably stored in there anyway), and considering how the FBI seem to have free run of the place, he can access it when needed. When he heard Camel was involved in a case, he could guess the call from Kir might come then so he transferred it to the truck. If it is a false alarm, he puts it back in the morgue.

I know you might say the he has experience with the BO and he dealt with them before, but that isn't "GOSHO STYLE" as it is based on probability and chance.

Except it isn't. He CAN guess how it is going to happen. A gun, Kir alone (the BO is sensitive to Akai's keen sense so others watching will be well out of range), dark, somewhere quiet and out of the way, probably by a road for a fast getaway so the truck and Kir's car will be really close, and a bomb or incendiary to destroy evidence at the end. Kir is going to psychologically manipulate Gin to make sure this is how it's going to turn out. Akai has some control as well. He could "feel something was off" if the BO had done something else that ruined the plan, and tell Kir the spot was too unfavorable, but he was still interested in meeting. He could show up at least, so BO would know Akai was serious about meeting Kir, and let Kir try again.
Also remember, Akai didn’t know it work for sure. He, Conan, and Kir planned it so it had a reasonable chance of succeeding, but no one can guarantee it. If it didn’t look like it would work, Kir probably would have killed Akai for real. This is why Conan checked his cellphone right away. He likely paid attention to the news that a body singular had been found (which is good), but to know it was Rikumichi’s body and not Akai he needed to know if his cellphone had been kept as evidence. If he got his original phone back (Akai’s prints weren’t on it) then that means the plan failed. Conan would only need to check his phone if the plan was uncertain to begin with.

2
This is pretty obvious. In the words of Abs., the BO were maximizing their chances of killing Akai, not being able to detect a trick. The BO know Akai is sharp and he won’t show up if he detects Kir is being dishonest. (Gin’s exact comment saying the above.) The camera is an obvious solution and highly convenient choice because they can’t get close, and it is dark, and they know Akai is going to scout the whole area in advance so there is no use setting up monitors with appropriate night vision distance equipment.

3
A pistol of that caliber at close range would pass through the head. Furthermore, in order to be realistic, blood needs to pool out the back of Akai’s head to leave a puddle on the seat. Kir asked Gin about seeing the blood pouring out the back of Gin’s head, so obviously it did matter. (source) Simultaneous blood packet detonation is trivial to implement if you already have the rig and timer for one.

4
It is unlikely the BO would endanger their secrecy sniffing about a police investigation when they saw Akai killed in front of them. Gin thinks Akai is dead, then Vermouth scouted and saw Jodie weeping, and she thought to herself that they only need one silver bullet. (source) Vermouth may be worried about Conan, but Gin was satisfied. Vermouth is also on a short leash because of what she did earlier, so even if she wanted to investigate more, she can’t without going to the boss first lest she risk more punishment. If she wanted to go swipe some documents, she would have to ask the boss’s permission, and sneaking in a police station is a bit risky as good as she is. (She can't exactly say she has done it before.) Also, being able to suddenly sneak in the station without doing significant scouting first might raise some awkward questions because Vermouth is not supposed to know the police. (Her Araide thing is unknown to the boss.)

5
Sorry, but this argument is stupid. It’s a dead body, and it’s being used to save someone else’s life.

6
It’s not as easy as you say. I really don’t want to spell out explicitly for the sake of common decency where Kir could have hidden her blank bullets when she first returned to the Organization, but I’m sure you can figure it out. Sure, the Org can make her change her clothes completely while a female agent watches, and then they run her down with a bug detector to make sure the FBI didn’t plant anything, but that’s going to be it. Although they are suspicious, they don’t suspect her enough, otherwise they would have killed her to be safe. There is a limit to how much you can oppress the people working for you before you make them feel uncomfortable enough to turn on you. As anyone who works with “human resources” in the CIA will tell you, making your people feel comfortable and valued is important to keeping them loyal. For women, violating them with a full body search would be a bit much.

7
There was apt recent correction and notes I made to my manga for this particular line. I don’t have it with me, so when I do, I will come back to this point. This is an IOU, not a dodge.

Regarding the second part about Kir's do not think badly of me, we have a few possible working interpretations. My personal preference is she is thinking of the FBI, who will think she killed Akai for real, placing her mission above the FBI's.

8
You are using the anime. The anime is absolutely full of fail. Do not use it.
Besides, Akai switched the body while Kir was fiddling at the hood of the car with the bomb, not afterwards during the countdown.

---

Finally, explain to me these:

1. Why did the bloodtrail disappear and the body move? There is no reason for Kir to touch it, and she was not shown doing so. We know this was not an art mistake as Gosho went back to change a line later in the same scene, but didn’t correct the blood or the changed head position, and has fixed art mistakes as minor as the positioning of Kir’s pinky finger while lie detecting Conan.

Explain Conan’s behavior. ..

2. Scene
Why did he check the cellphone right away after Jodie returned it? Jodie never told him she used it at the police station. Also, serial numbers on cellphones are very long – mine is 15 digits long. Memorizing that would be ridiculous, and Conan isn’t Kaito Kid in that regard. He must have looked at it before he gave his phone to Jodie in order to remember it. Why?

3. Scene
Right after he found out the serial number changed, he turned to Jodie and told her out of the blue “Ah… I wanted to say… good luck”. This was awkward. Why did he do it? In my version, he knew Akai faked his death and Jodie would likely grieving, but he wasn’t supposed to know Akai had died so he couldn’t comfort her, hence the wanting to say something, but being unable to give her a real condolence.

4. Scene
Why did Conan think it was alright and smirk to himself when Eisuke told him someone in the FBI might have died?

5. Lastly, please explain Okiya. Don’t forget about that list of rebuttals I have for arguments that Okiya is not Akai.

[someone somewhere]

Chek is being solid as usual….
Just one thing that I don't understand regarding the phone:

If he got his original phone back (Akai’s prints weren’t on it) then that means the plan failed

I am guessing you might be referring the plan to also deceive the FBI, leading them to believe that Akai is really dead. However, I can't make the connection on how it proves the success of the fake death plan itself. If the body were real akai, akai's prints would be matching the prints on the phone. Unless the phone that Conan gives to Jodie and the phone that Akai touched were two different phones.

aside from that, I generally agree that Chek has explained the fake death theory thoroughly such that I would be disappointed if Gosho's explanation is any less than that

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Unless the phone that Conan gives to Jodie and the phone that Akai touched were two different phones.

This is what I think. Rikumichi touched one, and Conan had Akai grab the other one. (Conan has two identical phones, one for Shinichi and one for Conan.) Conan wouldn't need to check the serial number if they both touched the same phone as it wouldn't be informative; the police would keep the original phone whether the body was Rikumichi's or Akai's.

[makoto]

conan won't even let a criminal die so let's forget about akai cause even to help the cause or catching these bo dude he won't let akai die so the smile proove he fake his death or else he'd be worried as hell

[lol]

I just want to start by responding to the 5 points under "Explain to me these:"

My explanation to these is that Akai really faked his death!! There is ample evidence and enough hints than Okyia is Akai. What I mean is that there must be ANOTHER plan or something that happened behind the scenes that he used to fake his death. In other words, I do believe Conan planned something with Akai and Kir but I simply don't believe or "buy" the fake death theory that I see people discussing on the forums and Cbox.

1-2-4-5
Even if a body is burned, forensics can tell when death occurred. And since the BO know precisely when the death was "supposed" to happen, It would only make sense for them to suspect a double body stunt once they heard about the akai "look-alike". Then try to steal the related reports from the police HQ. It would be easier than to snipe the "fake" Akai at noon when he's coming out of a mall!! And by their admission, their boss is "very cautious, he'd break a stone bridge to make sure it's solid", so looking into the dead body's reports should have been their first action once they get suspicious. So, if Conan and Co. deduced that, using Rikumichi's body would be a major flaw to their plan. Moreover, If Vermouth saw Jodie weeping and then they saw a "scar" Akai, the BO would immediately suspect that he tricked everyone including the FBI and go all out like they always do to know what's happened. Which is why I think Conan and Co. would use a trick other than a double body to evade that. As for USING Rikumichi's body, am I the only one who thinks that isn't right, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one! As for points 1&3, again...you say he CAN guess how its going to happen and easily predict the camera use, I say I JUST CAN'T see that being the case. There is a difference between "I know how you work!" and "I can read YOUR MIND!!". So I still say that it was very uncertain and reckless. So he must've had another trick up his sleeves.

6
I think an Organization who would blow up a hospital just to kill one of their agents who was captured wouldn't stop at giving a female member a full-body check. Also, what if Gin gave her a different type or model of gun? Just because she was in the CIA doesn't mean she can just have all types of bullets on her just in case and make them disappear magically!!

7
I am looking forward to your response. But like I said, THINKING "Porsche 356A.....so that's how it is?" simple means he just realized something for the first time! So if he can predict everything ahead of time like Holmes, he wouldn't have said that for sure!

8
I only used the anime-version to make the point that we don't know if there was blood on his shirt or not because of the black and white colouring. So I am not saying he definitely is the same Akai, I'm just saying there is that possibility. And the anime production team have meeting regularly with Gosho so who knows? He might have told them to do that on purpose!

Sorry If i missed a point or didn't make sense in some parts, I am beat! Will look over it again tomorr...*head hits the keyboard*

[Kor]

It would be easier than to snipe the "fake" Akai at noon when he's coming out of a mall!!

Only this is exactly what they intended to do, so your argument is invalid.

I think an Organization who would blow up a hospital just to kill one of their agents who was captured wouldn't stop at giving a female member a full-body check.

I think you should go back to the manga and check carefully what you're saying.

And the anime production team have meeting regularly with Gosho so who knows? He might have told them to do that on purpose!

Even if that's true (which it most likely isn't), it's better to use a "solid" source than to use a "maybe" source.