Dark Contact (700-704) Follow-Up Poll: Who are Okiya and scar Akai?

[shinichi]

for some reason now i'm pretty sure in my mind that okiya is the bo boss.

edit- and as for akai i have no clue at all 

[Rellik]

When Gin was talking about that great detective, i get the idea he was talking about Okiya

i mean he definitely doesn't know the existence of Conan, Okiya is a 'great' detective, and i don't find it strange if Okiya and Gin had like a clash before.

and when Okiya said that he saw scar akai on this floor and it wasn't the person he thought he was, anyone think that he thought scar akai was rena?
(though i dont think Okiya = Eisuke, because if Okiya does have a past with Gin, i think it would have been for a very long time - and i don't think Eisuke fits the bill)

P.S Why isn't Rena shot yet? xD

[James Rye]

When Gin was talking about that great detective, i get the idea he was talking about Okiya

i mean he definitely doesn't know the existence of Conan, Okiya is a 'great' detective, and i don't find it strange if Okiya and Gin had like a clash before.

and when Okiya said that he saw scar akai on this floor and it wasn't the person he thought he was, anyone think that he thought scar akai was rena?
(though i dont think Okiya = Eisuke, because if Okiya does have a past with Gin, i think it would have been for a very long time - and i don't think Eisuke fits the bill)

P.S Why isn't Rena shot yet? xD

I also thought that he means Bourbon. Maybe Bourbon contacted the Boss who give vermouth the order to back off Gin and the others. Could be the bitter coffee? XP
When Okiya is Bourbon, he probably have the idea that Rena is under the eyes from Gin, so no.^^
But if Okiya is Bourbon then who is burned Akai cause he cannot be the real Akai?!
Rena isn´t shot cause they still need her and Akais Identity isn´t completely confirmed?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

P.S Why isn't Rena shot yet? xD

Gin doesn't want to ruin the upholstery...

... just kidding. Gin couldn't see Okiya because of the crowd, but I thought it sounded like Gin was talking about Bourbon. I think Gin realized after watching Scar Akai for a bit that he was Bourbon, not Akai, even though Gin said "Akai Shuuichi" at first. If Gin seriously thought scar Akai was Akai Shuuichi, he wouldn't have lowered his gun since Shuuichi being alive would have confirmed that Hidemi (Kir) was a spy. If in the next chapter Gin's suspicion seems to have lowered and the B.O. hasn't started a manhunt, I think that will be fairly conclusive evidence that Gin doesn't think scar Akai is Shuuichi. (Considering scar Akai is right handed and acting in a manner that is harmful to Hidemi, the chances that he is the real Akai seem to be nil.)
What I want to know is who tipped off the B.O. that there was an Akai lookalike in the store in the first place? I doubt it was scar Akai referring to Okiya because scar Akai hasn't seen Okiya, and I definitely don't think Okiya is an org agent per evidence I present in another thread. Besides I think the contact was talking about scar Akai, not Okiya. I hope Gosho doesn't gloss over the informant later...

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

it could be korn?

Maybe. I was under the impression he came later but then again I can't be sure of that... maybe whoever it was was out on an errand run for the other agents.  :D

Gin: Hey Vodka, get one of your lackeys to buy some large cotton turtlenecks from the 3rd district Baker department store. I want them in steel blue and french beige ... and get one in cardinal too, that's in style right now.
Vodka: ... ...  Alright, aniki... but aniki, it's summer now, why would you want turtlenecks?
Gin: Damn it, Vodka, it's their seasonal sale! Turtlenecks are two for one and they're the only store which sells them in the colors I like!
Vodka: .. Aniki? ...
Gin: *ranting while ignoring Vodka completely* This year has been a disaster for my wardrobe! First, I had to put a hole in my favorite blue one on the roof of Hyde city hotel after some $#@% hit me with a tranquilizer needle, and then that #@$+@&% Akai Shuuichi messed up my second favorite one at that Mouri detective agency! How can anyone expect me to stay in fashion if my outfits keep getting destroyed like this! I'm soaked for cash after replacing my custom trenchcoat twice! I can't miss this sale!!!
Vodka: *sweatdrops*... U-understood.

[Blaze of Glory]

If Okiya is truly Akai how in hell did he know that Fake Akai was there before the robbery was committed. Unless, it's Bourbon since he's dedicated to finding Akai it's possible the boss told Gin and co to back and leave it to Okiya since he believes he's the only one who can kill him. Also as Rena said "He has the power of a detective" and Gin making that remark about Sherlock Holmes was referring to Okiya. Also I think know why now it's been so hard to understand who was who. Both Akai and Bourbon/Okiya are similar in ways. Kind of like twins. in chapter 702 we see Okiya on his cell doing research on the case and sending a text to Kogoro but he spends too much of his time smirking at Akai that he beats him to the punch. Okiya who now has Akai in his sights instead makes a phone call to the boss to tell him to Gin and them to back off from his prey. I think the reason Akai walked out was because he was confident they wouldn't fire since Bourbon has been activated and he urged the boss to stop them and let him handle it. From dialogue I guess it's safe to say Akai was in the organization as the time as Bourbon and he's confirmed that it was really Akai and not Vermouth. At the end of the chapter it kind of sounded like Okiya was mocking Gin and them which proves that he may in fact be Bourbon.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

If Okiya is truly Akai how in hell did he know that Fake Akai was there before the robbery was committed.

He didn't. That's why Okiya got the little shocked star when he saw scar-Akai.

Spoiler:

Regardless of who Okiya is, scar Akai is almost definitely not the real thing. Scar Akai is right handed and by wandering around openly has been endangering Hidemi, something the real Akai would not do. It is clear scar Akai hasn't lost his memory since he recognizes Chianti (would you smile at a sniper if you had no idea who you were?) and seems to be purposely appearing in front of the FBI. (Before anyone comments about someone switching handedness after head trauma I actually looked through scientific literature for examples and found nothing. That's not to say Gosho would not consider using head trauma as an excuse to switch handedness...)

[Blaze of Glory]

If Okiya is truly Akai how in hell did he know that Fake Akai was there before the robbery was committed.

He didn't. That's why Okiya got the little shocked star when he saw scar-Akai.

I'm talking about the Teito Bank robbery btw

Spoiler:

Regardless of who Okiya is, scar Akai is almost definitely not the real thing. Scar Akai is right handed and by wandering around openly has been endangering Hidemi, something the real Akai would not do.[/quote[

Funny he didn't seem to have any problem endangering Jodie when she was under attack by Vermouth he could've immediately rushed in and took her down without all the showboating and talking about how he broke Calvados's legs. Also so what he's right-handed? Have ever stopped to think that he might've injured his left hand when escaping the explosion?

(would you smile at a sniper if you had no idea who you were?) and seems to be purposely appearing in front of the FBI.

lol He smiled at Gin when he saw him across the other building which was 400 yards away.

[Tenken]

How could Conan contact that many customers and spread the fake news about the gift certificate?

[Blaze of Glory]

How could Conan contact that many customers and spread the fake news about the gift certificate?

Probz went into the employees only room and spoke through the intercom using his bowtie

[Akonyl]

How could Conan contact that many customers and spread the fake news about the gift certificate?

Probz went into the employees only room and spoke through the intercom using his bowtie

well the customers said it was a boy in glasses, so I doubt he was impersonating anyone

I'm guessing he just ran out into the crowd and yelled it.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I'm talking about the Teito Bank robbery btw

He saw the same tape Vodka did. I don't think we are meant to take Okiya's quote about seeing scar Akai at the bank literally.

Funny he didn't seem to have any problem endangering Jodie when she was under attack by Vermouth he could've immediately rushed in and took her down without all the showboating and talking about how he broke Calvados's legs. Also so what he's right-handed? Have ever stopped to think that he might've injured his left hand when escaping the explosion?

Yes, I have thought about him injuring his left hand, however I thought it was unlikely due to the fact that he could easily escape the duct tape at the bank heist. His hands were bound and removing it with only one hand, especially if it's his off hand, would be difficult especially if robbers are watching you. (His eyes were covered so scar Akai couldn't be sure that no one was watching until the robbers pretended to be hostages which would give him only a few minutes to escape.) Also he seems to be able to move his left hand well enough to do things like put it is his pocket.

Akai actively endangering Hidemi by walking around in the open is in a completely different league than showboating a little by showing up in the nick of time. Equating the two is logically perilous.

lol He smiled at Gin when he saw him across the other building which was 400 yards away.

You mean the 700 yard shot at Mouri Detective Agency? Akai knew who Gin was back then. I'm saying if you lost your memory it would be weird to smile at snipers like you are familiar with them and recognized them.

Also not speaking is suspicious. He could apparently speak to that guy he handed the cellphone back to just fine. Why not speak to Jodie if you lost your memory unless you are faking it to hide your voice because you are an imperfect voice imitator...  

Spoiler:

[Blaze of Glory]

He saw the same tape Vodka did. I don't think we are meant to take Okiya's quote about seeing scar Akai at the bank literally.

Yes, I have thought about him injuring his left hand, however I thought it was unlikely due to the fact that he could easily escape the duct tape at the bank heist.

For all you know he only used his right and took some getting used to.

His hands were bound and removing it with only one hand, especially if it's his off hand, would be difficult especially if robbers are watching you. (His eyes were covered so scar Akai couldn't be sure that no one was watching until the robbers pretended to be hostages which would give him only a few minutes to escape.) Also he seems to be able to move his left hand well enough to do things like put it is his pocket.

That doesn't really mean anything

He's able to put it in his pocket that doesn't mean it works well. When I hurt my hand I still put it in my pocket. Also it's possible to do thing with just one of your hands.

Akai actively endangering Hidemi by walking around in the open is in a completely different league than showboating a little by showing up in the nick of time. Equating the two is logically perilous.

Akai is aware that Hidemi is able to hold her own I mean after all she's a C.I.A. agent if she isn't able to lie as well as swear as a sailor to do succesfully be undercover then she shouldn't even have joined the C.I.A.. Also completely different? If it weren't for the fact that Vermouth assumed Calvados was coming behind Jodie would've been killed. Also there seems to be several cases of recklessness. Conan's for trying to trick Vodka and hide in the lockers stay with Mouri and nearly revealing his identity in the bomb train case.

You mean the 700 yard shot at Mouri Detective Agency? Akai knew who Gin was back then. I'm saying if you lost your memory it would be weird to smile at snipers like you are familiar with them and recognized them.

Well that's Akai, devil-may care attitude and all. Shit, he had a rookie agent pretend to be suspicious so he could throw Jodie off what him and Conan were doing and could've gotten him killed were it not for the planned explosion.

No

It's because he doesn't want Jodie getting involved. In most cases he's seen schooling her,telling her not to get involved, and criticizing her. There's no way in hell someone as openly polite as Okiya to be Akai.

Also last I checked he didn't tell anyone he was already going to be by the Mouri agency and scare away Gin and his pack of crows

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

For all you know he only used his right and took some getting used to.
That doesn't really mean anything.He's able to put it in his pocket that doesn't mean it works well. When I hurt my hand I still put it in my pocket. Also it's possible to do thing with just one of your hands.

Regardless, I make a very good point. What it boils down to that there is no evidence that his left hand or arm is injured. There is evidence that his left hand is fine and that he is actively using his right hand because he is right handed.

Akai is aware that Hidemi is able to hold her own I mean after all she's a C.I.A. agent if she isn't able to lie as well as swear as a sailor to do succesfully be undercover then she shouldn't even have joined the C.I.A.. Also completely different? If it weren't for the fact that Vermouth assumed Calvados was coming behind Jodie would've been killed. Also there seems to be several cases of recklessness. Conan's for trying to trick Vodka and hide in the lockers stay with Mouri and nearly revealing his identity in the bomb train case.

To be blunt, this argument is awful. Akai and Conan formulated a plan to sneak Hidemi back into the org in a way that makes her as least suspicious as possible. Do you think that Akai is going to blow that by wandering around and getting caught by the Org afterwards? While Akai might be reckless, he is not an idiot! There is nothing to gain and everything to lose by wandering around in the open.
I won't disagree with you that Akai may have been reckless at the docks, Akai apparently felt he had the situation with Jodie and Vermouth at the docks under control. It worked out somewhat; Vermouth did manage to escape with Conan but we have no idea how long Akai had been there. As far as we know he may have just barely made it and had to rush to sneak up and disable Calvados.

It's because he doesn't want Jodie getting involved. In most cases he's seen schooling her,telling her not to get involved, and criticizing her. There's no way in hell someone as openly polite as Okiya to be Akai.

It isn't that hard to pretend to be polite especially if your goal is to trick everyone into thinking you are someone else, so your argument hold no water. And Okiya running into Jodie an act of preventing her from getting involved. I am pretty sure I already pointed you to that list of reasons why Okiya is Akai once before...

Also last I checked he didn't tell anyone he was already going to be by the Mouri agency and scare away Gin and his pack of crows

True, but what the point you are trying to make with this?

---

Blaze, think about the arguments more carefully. There are two possibilities if you assume scar Akai is the real Akai, either he has his memory or he doesn't.
If he has his memory, then there is no bloody way he is going to wander around in the open when it risks all the work Akai and Conan did to get Rena back into the Org safely and there is nothing to gain. It's stupid. Akai is not stupid.
If he doesn't have his memory then maybe Akai would walk around in the open without knowing the danger he is in, but why would he smile at snipers, or seem to stalk the FBI, or not talk to them when he is clearly capable of doing so, or leave them messages on coasters?
His actions and behaviors don't add up. All the reasons I have given make for compelling evidence that scar Akai isn't the real Akai. If you want to try to convince me otherwise, please come up with a list of convincing arguments that scar Akai is Akai. You can't equate possible with probable. It is possible Conan is the boss of the Black organization because Conan has a split personality that occasionally takes over. Is it probable?... heck no. You have to have evidence.

[Blaze of Glory]

Regardless, I make a very good point. What it boils down to that there is no evidence that his left hand or arm is injured. There is evidence that his left hand is fine and that he is actively using his right hand because he is right handed.

Yes, I'll give you that

To be blunt, this argument is awful. Akai and Conan formulated a plan to sneak Hidemi back into the org in a way that makes her as least suspicious as possible. Do you think that Akai is going to blow that by wandering around and getting caught by the Org afterwards? While Akai might be reckless, he is not an idiot!

I'm basing my argument off his personality and everything that happened chapters ago. The man has been in the org so you don't you think that he knows their style by now?

It isn't that hard to pretend to be polite especially if your goal is to trick everyone into thinking you are someone else, so your argument hold no water. And Okiya running into Jodie an act of preventing her from getting involved. I am pretty sure I already pointed you do that list of reasons why Okiya is Akai once before...

No, that was for Eisuke.

Where's your evidence for him trying to prevent her from getting involved.

Here's your argument for why Scar Akai is Bourbon: Because he's so quiet that means he's suspicious. Okay, Dr. Araide seemed to talk alot and yet he actually turned out to be Vermouth.

True, but what the point you are trying to make with this?

I'm saying that he is secretive and unpredictable so there's no telling what he'll do.

CM

I am in no way doubting that you have an impressive argument but after this chapter I can't help but be suspicious of Okiya once more.