Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 906-908

[MrDetective]

Spoiler:

Why does't Ai just tell once and for all everything she knows about the BO to Conan?

[Nemomon]

Spoiler:

Why does't Ai just tell once and for all everything she knows about the BO to Conan?

Spoiler:

Because she's a bitch. But lovely bitch .

[MoonRaven]

Spoiler:

Why does't Ai just tell once and for all everything she knows about the BO to Conan?

Because then the series would end too soon. Same with AiCon. It was there during Vermouth arc but afte that Ai went to sidelines and the progressing of the plot became slower. :V

[MeiTanteixX]

Because what's driving this series forward is the MYSTERY and the numerous SECRETIVE behavior and the very rare LEAKAGE OF INFORMATION! !!! ♡

[Fennec]

Ai's secretive nature in regards to information on the BO is more than just to add mystery and drama to the plot. If you think about it, it fits her personality and reasoning.

From what we've seen, Ai doesn't actually want to bring down the BO, she just wants to get away from it completely. As far as she's concerned it's too big to take down. Think about it: the only times she really gets involved is A) when her life is at stake, or B) when the APTX-4869 is involved since she feels guilty about it. When one of Conan's bugs got stuck on Mizunashi Rena's shoe, she even explicitly stated that she only helped Conan that time because it would endanger her life. If she were to tell Conan and the FBI everything she knew, their strategies would change accordingly and that would ultimately create more opportunities for her to be found by the BO.

With the FBI agents, the BO already knows about Jodie, James and Camel. I'm pretty sure the reason they haven't acted yet is because if they killed them, they'd be replaced by NEW agents and the BO would have to start gathering information from scratch. Also, they probably don't see the FBI as a giant threat anymore due to Akai's supposed death. Should the FBI show an increase in knowledge, though, the BO would naturally assume they have an informant and start looking into all of their associates more closely, as well as have the agents monitored carefully once they were located. At some point they would inevitably come across a mention of the Detective Boys in the police files or see them run into them on the street and BOOM, Ai is discovered.

Conan, meanwhile, would probably take a LOT more chances with that than the FBI. Don't deny it, he would. While he'd probably share the information with the FBI if Ai hadn't told them already, should he come across a BO agent on his own he'd probably be even more likely to try to take them down. (See: the failed "sting" on Gin and Vodka with the CD. Also the majority of his interactions with Bourbon. Hell, the guy jumps on any case that even has the remote POSSIBILITY of involving the BO.) If he got caught or identified (which Ai naturally assumes will happen, and I REALLY can't blame her given his track record), they'd investigate everyone around him and she would ultimately be found. So, telling him is a no-go too.

All in all, her reluctance to share information fits her character, not just the plot. Sharing it could lead to her capture, as well as endanger the Detective Boys. And while taking down the BO WOULD solve her problems once and for all, she just has too much to risk—especially since, as I mentioned earlier, she appears to be in the thought camp that the organization's too big to take down.

[k11chi]

I don't think that Haibara wants Conan to find out anything anymore, she's supposed to be at peace right now...

[Kor]

Because what's driving this series forward is the MYSTERY and the numerous SECRETIVE behavior and the very rare LEAKAGE OF INFORMATION! !!! ♡

Actually, that's what's dragging the series in a snail pace. If we've learned anything from the last 7 years, is that there could be this big mystery going on, but in all actuality it did very little to drive the series forward in any meaningful way.
In the first decade, this wasn't such a problem, because Conan didn't have many allies around who knew stuff, and Haibara was very reluctant. But now, with Conan having so many allies, the fact that none of them seem to share crucial information (unless the plot suddenly calls for it) is a really jarring problem.

Ai's secretive nature in regards to information on the BO is more than just to add mystery and drama to the plot. If you think about it, it fits her personality and reasoning.

From what we've seen, Ai doesn't actually want to bring down the BO, she just wants to get away from it completely. As far as she's concerned it's too big to take down. Think about it: the only times she really gets involved is A) when her life is at stake, or B) when the APTX-4869 is involved since she feels guilty about it. When one of Conan's bugs got stuck on Mizunashi Rena's shoe, she even explicitly stated that she only helped Conan that time because it would endanger her life. If she were to tell Conan and the FBI everything she knew, their strategies would change accordingly and that would ultimately create more opportunities for her to be found by the BO.

With the FBI agents, the BO already knows about Jodie, James and Camel. I'm pretty sure the reason they haven't acted yet is because if they killed them, they'd be replaced by NEW agents and the BO would have to start gathering information from scratch. Also, they probably don't see the FBI as a giant threat anymore due to Akai's supposed death. Should the FBI show an increase in knowledge, though, the BO would naturally assume they have an informant and start looking into all of their associates more closely, as well as have the agents monitored carefully once they were located. At some point they would inevitably come across a mention of the Detective Boys in the police files or see them run into them on the street and BOOM, Ai is discovered.

Conan, meanwhile, would probably take a LOT more chances with that than the FBI. Don't deny it, he would. While he'd probably share the information with the FBI if Ai hadn't told them already, should he come across a BO agent on his own he'd probably be even more likely to try to take them down. (See: the failed "sting" on Gin and Vodka with the CD. Also the majority of his interactions with Bourbon. Hell, the guy jumps on any case that even has the remote POSSIBILITY of involving the BO.) If he got caught or identified (which Ai naturally assumes will happen, and I REALLY can't blame her given his track record), they'd investigate everyone around him and she would ultimately be found. So, telling him is a no-go too.

All in all, her reluctance to share information fits her character, not just the plot. Sharing it could lead to her capture, as well as endanger the Detective Boys. And while taking down the BO WOULD solve her problems once and for all, she just has too much to risk—especially since, as I mentioned earlier, she appears to be in the thought camp that the organization's too big to take down.

This analysis might apply to Haibara in the past, but she has gone through character development since then. Here's the thing, Conan will chase after the BO whether Haibara tells him stuff or not, so it's not like she's protecting anyone by not revealing anything to Conan.
Conan was willing to put her and his friends on a train that very likely had BO members, without her knowledge. He's willing to pull some risky stunts regardless of whether or not she helps him, so not revealing information to Conan doesn't really mean much at this point.
In all honesty, I feel a lot of people cling to the image of Haibara from episodes 129-345 (maybe even up to 425). But in the last 7 years, she really hasn't been that relevant or interesting (besides a couple of episodes).

Chekhov had a pretty good post about Haibara last year:

Ai's character has always bothered me because I feel like the strings Gosho uses to make her dance to plot are more visible than those of the other characters. In the best fiction, you do not notice that the author is controlling a character's actions towards a certain end because the character's actions are consistent with their personality and their past behavior. Likewise, a good puppeteer draws your entire focus to the puppets so that you completely forget about the strings the puppet is being manipulated with. A problem occurs when there is a contradiction between the author's need to maintain the plot and the readers' expectations of the character's behavior. Haibara has developed into an awkward character because currently there does not seem to be a good reason for the discrepancy between her intent (she wants to prevent her friends from being killed while they destroy an evil organization) and her actions (give out as little useful information as possible to said friends). Gosho seems to have written himself into a corner here, because he can't ruin the big mysteries that Haibara knows the answers to, even though Haibara's character has become more trusting and confident in her friends.

The second thing that calls attention to her awkwardness is the disconnect between her character development outside Black Org cases and her behavior in them. She has become a more outgoing character outside of Black Org cases, communicating with and trusting the others more. However, in Black Org cases, despite her decision to no longer run away, she still goes off alone thinking she needs to sacrifice herself, rather than trying to work with her friends for a better solution. She seems to completely forget the trust and bonds she has built with others. Since her character development has occurred extensively outside of Org cases, it should carry back to Org related situations, even just a little (i.e her telling Conan beforehand she wants to do something sacrificial because she sees no way out.) Gosho could also give her a monologue explaining that the Black Org causes irrational fear to take over, so explaining her regressions. Leaving it unspoken gives Haibara character whiplash when cases switch between Org and not Org.

[AICHAN]

Ai's secretive nature in regards to information on the BO is more than just to add mystery and drama to the plot. If you think about it, it fits her personality and reasoning.

From what we've seen, Ai doesn't actually want to bring down the BO, she just wants to get away from it completely. As far as she's concerned it's too big to take down. Think about it: the only times she really gets involved is A) when her life is at stake, or B) when the APTX-4869 is involved since she feels guilty about it. When one of Conan's bugs got stuck on Mizunashi Rena's shoe, she even explicitly stated that she only helped Conan that time because it would endanger her life. If she were to tell Conan and the FBI everything she knew, their strategies would change accordingly and that would ultimately create more opportunities for her to be found by the BO.

With the FBI agents, the BO already knows about Jodie, James and Camel. I'm pretty sure the reason they haven't acted yet is because if they killed them, they'd be replaced by NEW agents and the BO would have to start gathering information from scratch. Also, they probably don't see the FBI as a giant threat anymore due to Akai's supposed death. Should the FBI show an increase in knowledge, though, the BO would naturally assume they have an informant and start looking into all of their associates more closely, as well as have the agents monitored carefully once they were located. At some point they would inevitably come across a mention of the Detective Boys in the police files or see them run into them on the street and BOOM, Ai is discovered.

Conan, meanwhile, would probably take a LOT more chances with that than the FBI. Don't deny it, he would. While he'd probably share the information with the FBI if Ai hadn't told them already, should he come across a BO agent on his own he'd probably be even more likely to try to take them down. (See: the failed "sting" on Gin and Vodka with the CD. Also the majority of his interactions with Bourbon. Hell, the guy jumps on any case that even has the remote POSSIBILITY of involving the BO.) If he got caught or identified (which Ai naturally assumes will happen, and I REALLY can't blame her given his track record), they'd investigate everyone around him and she would ultimately be found. So, telling him is a no-go too.

All in all, her reluctance to share information fits her character, not just the plot. Sharing it could lead to her capture, as well as endanger the Detective Boys. And while taking down the BO WOULD solve her problems once and for all, she just has too much to risk—especially since, as I mentioned earlier, she appears to be in the thought camp that the organization's too big to take down.

I completly agree.

This analysis might apply to Haibara in the past, but she has gone through character development since then. Here's the thing, Conan will chase after the BO whether Haibara tells him stuff or not, so it's not like she's protecting anyone by not revealing anything to Conan.
Conan was willing to put her and his friends on a train that very likely had BO members, without her knowledge. He's willing to pull some risky stunts regardless of whether or not she helps him, so not revealing information to Conan doesn't really mean much at this point.
In all honesty, I feel a lot of people cling to the image of Haibara from episodes 129-345 (maybe even up to 425). But in the last 7 years, she really hasn't been that relevant or interesting (besides a couple of episodes).

Well that's the case for almost all the characters in DC
Even Amuro or Sera had a good potential and they now aren't as great as they're supposed to be.Many importants points are linked to Ai in a way (the APTX,Vermouth secret and the Miyanos...)and she will become relevant when Gosho will want her to be.Now Gosho is focusing on new boring mysteries so it's not like she'll pop up from nowhere and start investigating with Conan about the Sera family arc.(Of course if the mystery girl is really the shrunken mom,then Ai will probably be more active because it's her drug)

Also you say that Haibara has gone through character development,but Conan hasn't changed at all,he can be really reckless and put many people in danger.If Amuro wasn't a good guy then Conan would probably be discovered and Akai killed during the Bourbon arc.I really think Ai is doing the right thing by not revealing too much to Conan or the FBI(they showed recently that without Akai they aren't really reliable,especially with Camel)

[Gentaphoenix]

I don't think we can trust Ai completely, as we do not know enough about Shiho.

[Kor]

Well that's the case for almost all the characters in DC

Never said it's exclusive only for Haibara. Though just because it applies for the majority of the characters, doesn't really make it a non-issue.

Many importants points are linked to Ai in a way (the APTX,Vermouth secret and the Miyanos...)and she will become relevant when Gosho will want her to be.Now Gosho is focusing on new boring mysteries so it's not like she'll pop up from nowhere and start investigating with Conan about the Sera family arc.(Of course if the mystery girl is really the shrunken mom,then Ai will probably be more active because it's her drug)

I have no doubt she'll become relevant again in the future. That wasn't really my main point in the post, though. That last line which you bolded was nothing more than a side remark. I don't mind discussing the merits of Haibara's character, but you're taking this discussion to a different direction than what it originated from.

Also you say that Haibara has gone through character development,but Conan hasn't changed at all,he can be really reckless and put many people in danger.

Conan has gone through several points of character development (like in the Moonlight Sonata case). That said, yeah, he's still reckless, and I feel like Conan has learned the wrong lessons from several events (though I'm pretty sure that's unintentional on Gosho's part). Then again, considering his latest achievements (as much as those confrontations were underwhelming), why should he become less reckless? He's proven that his methods and plans work, the narrative supports his actions. Perhaps becoming less reckless just isn't part of his intended character development. Perhaps his recklessness is just a character flaw, and the only problem with it now is that there aren't any consequences to this flaw anymore.
As it has been established, Conan would go after the BO regardless if Haibara tells him stuff or not, so she's not protecting anyone, and just in the latest file, she nonchalantly gave info to Conan on the BO, so it doesn't seem she's too reluctant to do so anyway. Which goes back to my original point: There isn't such a firm character based reason for why Haibara doesn't tell Conan stuff. It's just a Gosho dictated reason for when the plot calls for someone to share information or for something new that needs to happen. (and this isn't exclusive to only Haibara)

Just to be clear: I'm not saying Haibara's character is bad (she's okay as much as the other characters in DC). I'm merely arguing that defending Gosho's convenient writing as if there's some sort of deep character reason, doesn't work in this case.

[AICHAN]

@Kor:My point was that Gosho doesn't want to reveal all the secrets that Ai probably knows because that would lead to the end of DC.But it fits with Ai's personality so I'm not really shocked as a reader.
The other part of my post was actually only reacting to what you said about fans clinging to the old image of Ai.

As for Conan I'm waiting for his plans to fail.As you said there aren't any consequences to his reckless behavior,and it's getting annoying.I hope with Rum it will be different.

[Incomplete-tantei]

My guess at the moment(until further development) is one of these possibilities:

Spoiler:

RUM could be a special operation group in the BO that consists of the three members ( with the described characteristics of "RUM") and where as RUM is the initials of the three people's code names(alcoholic). The thing that haibara forgot(that the three description had in common) could be an emblem, symbol or any kind of sign(clothing etc) that they wear that defines them as RUM(members).

RUM might also be someone skillful with disguises, who has never showed his/her true face to anyone but anokata. Who because of that has gotten many descriptions of his/her characteristics, where they had one thing in common(which could be something important to RUM and could become a plot device in the future). Also, this outcome would show us that anokata's favorite/right-hand both are enthusiastic about disguising, which could give us a hint about the boss character.

I personally would prefer Rum to be only one person, as it would be more frightening if Rum is dangerous, than many BO agents making it as if there's a Rum agent but that doesn't exist... I'd be pretty disappointed personally. Plus, except Gin, we don't have a BO agent who's that scary/dangerous/loyal, so I think it's about time for Gosho to show us a real dangerous BO member and make us remember that the Organization is really something.

[Kor]

Chapter 908 will be published in issue #42 of Shonen Sunday. Afterwards, there will be 5 weeks break for Conan. Detective Conan will return in issue #48 with file 909.
During these 5 weeks break, we'll be getting three chapters of Magic Kaito.

Here's the schedule for the next few weeks as posted by Tuntun in Beika Street:

Shônen Sunday #42 (17/09) : Conan #908
Shônen Sunday #43 (24/09) : Conan Absent.
Shônen Sunday #44 (01/10) : Magic Kaito - Nouveau Chapitre #01. Conan Absent.
Shônen Sunday #45 (08/10) : Magic Kaito - Nouveau Chapitre #02. Conan Absent.
Shônen Sunday #46 (15/10) : Magic Kaito - Nouveau Chapitre #03. Conan Absent.
Shônen Sunday #47 (22/10) : Conan Absent.
Shônen Sunday #48 (29/10) : Conan #909

Also, so far here's what we know from spoilers for file 908:

Spoiler:

Fujiwara: Spoiler pic translation: ‪Rum … He injured his eye in some sort of accident …‬

So either his left or right eye … is apparently artificial.

(note: these are Haibara's lines from the spoiler pic we currently have)

[Nemomon]

I hope Gosho won't take (a very bad) example from certain Togashi... At least we get Kaito..

[Wakarimashita]

We'll be at less than or maybe just around 30 Conan chapters published this year I think.