[Files 775-777] Target on Tape

[Goral]

I don't think these criminals were after something that was inside the vase, for various reasons. Firstly, why not take the whole vase anyway to at least verify it really was the vase they were looking for (the vase itself didn't look to be very distinctive item and it could have been some other vase but similar) or in case they would find what they were looking for to not let professor and the police know it might have been the case. Secondly, we know that Agasa bought it MANY YEARS AGO so it would be unlikely the item would still be there (or that there would only be one owner, so betting on Agasa knowing who the previous owner was would be unreasonable). Thirdly, Conan had problems with identifying the item which suggests it wasn't anything rare and valuable. Well, it could also be interpreted that because he couldn't find any info it wasn't a common item either but my guess here is that if it was sth worth kidnapping for he would find out about it in a matter of seconds (since he's Conan after all).

My first thought here was that the rug was their initial target but because of kidnapping it doesn't make much sense either (far-fetched idea would be that they didn't want them to know carpet was their target so they've kidnapped Ayumi, lol - doesn't make sense I know). Ayumi having coffee on her isn't necessarily true and even if it was it would probably sink into Aymi's clothes and wouldn't stain the carpet much. Also, how the heck did they spill coffee? We know Agasa answered the door so either he put coffee on a table (so there would be no way it would be spilled unless Ayumi did it) or he went with coffee to answer in which case there wouldn't be a puddle where it was.

Personally I don't see Gosho resolving this without leaving any plot-holes.

(...) My own nephew asked me what those "big bulges" were on my chest (...)

Very interesting ]:->. In other words you're not flat to say the least.

[Kor]

Goral - Israeli?

[Abs.]

Also, how the heck did they spill coffee? We know Agasa answered the door so either he put coffee on a table (so there would be no way it would be spilled unless Ayumi did it) or he went with coffee to answer in which case there wouldn't be a puddle where it was.

Personally I don't see Gosho resolving this without leaving any plot-holes.

Assuming that the coffee spilled when the struggle between Ayumi + kidnappers knocked over the carafe. You can see it on the floor here, in the second-to-last panel:

Spoiler:

[sonoci]

Also, how the heck did they spill coffee? We know Agasa answered the door so either he put coffee on a table (so there would be no way it would be spilled unless Ayumi did it) or he went with coffee to answer in which case there wouldn't be a puddle where it was.

Personally I don't see Gosho resolving this without leaving any plot-holes.

Assuming that the coffee spilled when the struggle between Ayumi + kidnappers knocked over the carafe. You can see it on the floor here, in the second-to-last panel:

Spoiler:

Goral has a point though. From what that panel shows, the carafe is pretty far from anything that could be a table. It's also far from the door so Agasa wouldn't have reasonably dropped it where it is. I have a feeling this case is just brimming with small little details. *goes off to look for them*

[1Kaito]

You know Conan says people wouldn't think that a teenager can actually be turned into a little kid, but if the BO would kidnapp Haibara thinking she is Sherry then either it isn't as absurd of a thought as Conan (and most people) would think or the BO knows exactly what the APTX rare effecs are...if it is even rare at all

[sstimson]

Dumb question time.

What if the Vase is really very valuable, like maybe a priceless Ming Vase. The Robber saw ths vase and could not believe their eyes. They can to see if it was the real thing. After they saw it was indeed the real thing, they realized that they did not have at that time the necessary equipment to properly protect it. They had knocked out the two there. Then they realized that by taking the girl they get another chance at getting the vase. They have the old man prepare the vase for them in exchange for returning the girl. Remember that vase belongs in museum!

[Goral]

Goral - Israeli?

Nope, not Jewish either - Polish, "góral" (read as goo-rahl) = highlander / mountain man.

Assuming that the coffee spilled when the struggle between Ayumi + kidnappers knocked over the carafe. (...)

This sounds very funny, "struggle between 7-year old and grown men" . I would think that these men would be much faster and with their reach (and the fact there were two of them) they could immediately grab such a kid without any problems. Plus Ayumi is really short so it would be hard for her to grab it and with her low momentum I doubt she could move the table. So yeah, it's possible she did it or kidnappers did it by accident when they tried to grab her but it's still a bit far-fetched IMO.

@sstimson
I doubt it. Seeing as it was just lying on the ground with kid(s) around, it would be safe to assume Agasa wasn't exactly properly handling with it either. Also I don't see a problem with just taking it but in case some equipment was needed I would think they would have it with them since they must have seen the video.

[Abs.]

I don't know if you know this but little kids are freaking slippery little buggers!

[Shuusgirl]

You know Conan says people wouldn't think that a teenager can actually be turned into a little kid, but if the BO would kidnapp Haibara thinking she is Sherry then either it isn't as absurd of a thought as Conan (and most people) would think or the BO knows exactly what the APTX rare effecs are...if it is even rare at all

Except for the little fact that only Vermouth knows that Haibara=Sherry.  And she's keeping it secret, for whatever reason.  (I highly doubt it's only because Conan asked her too.)
And about Genta and Mitsuhiko's comments about Sera's chest, that's not really uncommon in manga.  Like one of my favorite parts in Shiawasse Kissa:

Spoiler:

http://www.manga2u.org/Shiawase_Kissa_S ... e/21.1/03/

Given that she looked like she was trying to correct Takagi when he called her a boy in that first case, and that she gets flustered when people comment on how small she is, I'd bet she's a girl.

[Sato]

I have my guess, one of the kidnappers is thirsty and end up drink the coffee, instead accidentally spill when Ayumi show up as he has to restrain and his partner come to help. Maybe Sera has met Eisuke and Shinichi's parents, being nosey parker to be Conan/Shinichi's bodyguard, maybe Shinichi's parents don't trust Eisuke who know Conan's secret and being a klutz so they likely send Sera to keep eye on danger for Conan.

[sstimson]

@sstimson
I doubt it. Seeing as it was just lying on the ground with kid(s) around, it would be safe to assume Agasa wasn't exactly properly handling with it either. Also I don't see a problem with just taking it but in case some equipment was needed I would think they would have it with them since they must have seen the video.

First remember Agasa does not yet know its value. If he did, I sure that vase would be in a much safer place.

Second would you take a priceless item that is easy to break? The kidnappers, seeing the vase and knowing it is priceless, would not take the chance of it breaking if they took it now. I sure they are amateurs. But they know enough that if they took it now, it would get broken. They either forgot the equipment they needed, or did not bring enough. They decided on the kidnapping plan as being safer.

Third, we all know Ayumi is not going to get killed. There will be a ransom demand. Can you think of anything else that might be part of that demand

Also to all the want this to be BO related, two points. One, The BO would just kill her. Two, they would blow up the house after that. As neither of these happened, this is not BO related.

Fixed broken quote - Abs.

[Mosflow]

I love the poll.
I also love the new developments. And Gosho stop it with the sideways all-knowing glances that all the new characters do. It makes my head spin.
Anyway, can't really put out a theory or evidence since everyone else in this forum has such awesome ones.

[Goral]

@sstimson

I thought you considered that idea as dumb :>. Guess you didn't after all.

First, you've missed my point. It doesn't matter he didn't know it's value and the kidnappers knew he didn't know. What matters is he wasn't properly handling it, it wasn't under a protective glass and yet it was whole and unbroken. Plus in the video he was casually holding it and it didn't broke. If it was so delicate that it could almost crumble because of it's own weight, it would when Agasa held it. So not taking it while they've had a chance and instead kidnap a kid that was there to get it later in a ransom-hostage exchange would be really, really dumb and overly complicate things. Especially if Agasa would have to deliver it himself anyway and risk damaging it anyway.
Second, if I were a thief I would grab an item worth thousands of dollars even if it meant destroying it slightly (plus, how hard can it be to wrap a vase in a cloth?). Paintings (even old, priceless ones) being cut out of their frames are common, the profit is still humongous and it makes transporting and getting away with it easier. But that's beyond the point since clearly it wasn't easy to break (as seen in the video), at least not easier then your plain, average jug. Also, you writing that "knowing it is priceless, would not take the chance of it breaking if they took it now" and "They either forgot the equipment they needed, or did not bring enough." makes no sense. If they knew how valuable it was, how old it was and how easily damaged it could be they would surely be prepared. And we've seen their resolve when they kidnapped Ayumi so it wasn't a crime in a spur of a moment, assuming they were thieves (thus I'm starting to think that kidnapping was their goal all along, seeing a beautiful house - thanks to given address or finding it themselves - and seeing he has some valuable items he could be a target but then again there would be a problem of noticing Haibara in his glasses).
Third, you're probably right here partially. I would think they would prefer cash not a vase that would be hard to sell and easy to draw attention of the police.

Because of the above I'm starting to think that they're kidnappers mentioned earlier, not art thieves. Whoever went with that option deserves a cookie (especially the person who thought about it first, sorry don't recall a name).

Edit:
@RedPoppy
Spójrz na mojego poprzedniego posta .

[JohnTitor]

LOLZ GOTTA GO WITH THE LAST OPTION FOR SURE

Am I the only one who thinks that Agasa is suspicious? I mean suspicious suspicious.

[RedPoppy]

Hmmm... I don't think this vase is SO delicate. I guess that even if Agasa doesn't know the value of this vase, he would have protected it, seeing it's delicate. I guess the vase is pretty tough. What's funny about this vase - it's quite big, but it seems to be really light. Everybody picks the vase up without problems (and it doesn't look like anybody tries to be gente while holding it). I wonder what kind of material it is made.

Btw, about kidnappers not being thieves - who thinks that maybe the kidnappers changed the vase to fake one? After noticing Ayumi, they decided to take her with them and then demand ransom? Though I've never heard about that kind of kidnappers.

Offtopic - Góral, are you from Poland? Omg, finally there would be somebody from my country!