*SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 856-858

[CoolKid94]

Amuro's one of the coolest BO characters, below only Vermouth and Gin. He'll only die when the other two die. At least that's what I hope.

I agree that exploiting Bourbon is a very logical step to getting into contact with the Boss. *File 900 spoiler alert* XD

[Miaharpy]

Well, we can't really say anything TOO much about Bourbon really. He's still technically a new character. But we DO know a few things, like he knew Date-san and apparently he made a promise to Vermouth about something (I'm guessing it's about Conan, but that 'promise' has yet to be revealed.) For now, I think Bourbon would probably go either way at this point. So far, all we know is that he is very interested in Conan for 2 things. 1 is he solved almost all of Kogoro's cases and 2 he knows about the Organization.

[Atraos]

Amuro just appeared and you want him to die already? XD

Yeah, for making us wait so hyping long

Just kidding. What I meant, was that, if he will find out about Conan he has to either (partially) switch side [Vermouth], be put on a Bus [Eisuke], or killed.
My prefered option would be d) let him know and escalate the conflict towards the final confrontation, but knowing Gosho's Plot aversion and his love for the Status Quo, this is out of the Picture :/

[Hime-Chan]

Given Conan's level of stress, he's probably going to slip up, and then Sera will know his secret.
I don't understand how Ran could be a suspect. If she is, she won't be for long, she didn't even know the victim, doesn't have a motive, or anything. Besides, she was knocked up by the gas too.

[PhantomWriter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that Amuro/Bourbon not only has a particular disdain for Akai but also doesn't work too well with Gin. So finding out that Kudo Shinichi is still alive and dragging him before the Boss in order to get back at Gin might create the necessary tension between them, something that Conan as well as Vermouth would be very quick to exploit. If you play this right, you could make Amuro a flimsy ally or at least a neutral party.

Another Option would be to have Amuro die at the hands of either Gin or Vermouth in the ensuing conflict in order to get him out of the picture, now that he knows

They haven't really interacted, so it's a bit hard to determine to what extent Gin and Amuro don't get along. It could be anything from "Yeah, we aren't really going out for drinks after missions and I think the other guy's a pain in the ass, but we can put up with each other when we need to" to "We are always about to murder each other and the only thing preventing it is our orders." *shrugs*

I don't like the idea of Amuro dying like Pisco. He could be an interesting catalyst for change in the story and the story progressing as quickly as it has is something that I'm liking. Him dying would slow things down.

[Tenryu]

how about something like Amuro knocks his head and loses his memories :V
that will be new lol

[Akonyl]

Sera's totally outsourcing her detective work.

[Kiichi]

Sera's totally outsourcing her detective work.

Lol if she is... But anyway she seems very smart, it just could be that she has always wanted to catch up with Shinichi if they really knew each other someway...
In the Cocktail of Sorrow case I wonder what Aoyama was testing with it, those parts that the characters wake up with eyes opening it also appears in this case with Ran and that last chapter of Cocktail of Sorrow worked like a charm seriously I hope he's using these ideas for Amuro because Amuro rules

[User 4869]

I WMG that Sera ask Okiya about her deduction on his identity.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I had to bust out my secret weapon on this case... my mom. She nailed something I overlooked right away. Sera had no problem calling from inside the apartment, so Rumi was probably lying about the reception.

Edit: or Kenya lied about having bad reception..

[Pmofmalasia]

I had to bust out my secret weapon on this case... my mom. She nailed something I overlooked right away. Sera had no problem calling from inside the apartment, so Rumi was probably lying about the reception.

Edit: or Kenya lied about having bad reception..

I had been thinking it was Kenya who lied, since Rumi says, "Huh? You can't hear me?" Because it's well known that there's bad reception in her apartment it would be easy for him to lie about.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

There are some things I still don't get about the case. I can't come up with an answer I like, one free of contradictions. That makes picking the culprit hard but I think it is either Rumi or Settsu. My thoughts so far.

Timing of Events
Waka was drinking with Kaga until 05:00
Midday next day, Settsu, who was waiting with Rumi, went to the bathroom for a while.
30 minutes later, Kaga arrives and goes to the bathroom.
Very soon after, Rumi and Ran go to check on Waka while Kaga is still out
30 minutes later, Kaga and Settsu go to check on the girls and are delayed by getting the door unlocked by staff.

Manipulator positions.
Rumi hired Sera, Sera was with Rumi all day acting as alibi.
Settsu went to restroom prior to Ran and Conan arriving.
Settsu made reservation at a restaurant that is hard to get reservations for, but had no control over who would attend.
Rumi told Settsu that sister would not be attending.
Settsu invited Ran right away after hearing sister would not be attending.
Kaga asks to use restroom when he comes, Settsu tells him where it is.
Rumi decides she wants to look for Waka
Settsu had the room key, asks Rumi to return it to Waka.
Settsu told Ran to go with Rumi to go upstairs, excuses himself from doing it.
Rumi opens door to the apt.
Rumi tells Ran where to search, while going to answer her phone while heading towards the living room.
After Ran faints, Rumi has free run of the place.

Assumptions that are probably fair to make
Settsu was watched by Sera and Conan while he was downstairs, except for his bathroom break.
Everything that happened when Settsu and Kaga went to find out why Ran, Rumi, and Waka were delayed probably happened as the two guys told because of extra witnesses that can verify. Also the details of the entry situation were not shown, and normally clue relevant scenes are shown or mentioned. I wouldn’t worry about where in the house the guys checked first. Conan presumably followed them, and maybe Sera as well.

Character of the crime
The crime seems premeditated in that obtaining chloroform requires planning ahead of time. However, a golf club as a murder weapon is not very premeditated. A golf club would make sense only if the culprit needed a blunt instrument, but that person was forced to use what was available and couldn’t bring something better ahead of time without arousing suspicion or worry it might be discovered. Also the failure to dispose of the chloroform in a better fashion is unusual because it doesn’t look like a suicide if the bottle is left in the kitchen sink away from the location of death, thus implicating one of the three suspects who visited recently. Also the door was locked, which does not match the image of a random break-in attacker. It would make sense that the culprit could not dispose of the chloroform and murder weapon in a better fashion, perhaps because they were pressed for time or worried about someone coming.

The state of the victim’s body suggests that she was killed while awake with a blunt instrument while fiddling with her eye, because going unconscious first due to chloroform should result in a face like Ran’s with both eyes closed.
A facial is something you don’t put on with makeup that you intend to keep on because the facial has to get washed off. That means the makeup Waka has on currently is last night’s makeup. Maybe she was planning on taking a shower in prep for the lunch. She had to take her contacts out that she left in overnight because she passed out. She might have been winking because she was taking out one of her contacts when she was killed and died nearly instantly. So where did her contact go?

Not a suicide
One possibility is Waka tried to commit suicide with chloroform. It explains why the narcotic was in the apartment in the first case. However, suicide is probably not what happened because it fails to explain why would the victim’s head be beaten, and the body winking. The damage seems to be worse than just falling over and hitting her head, otherwise Yokomizo might have mentioned that possibility. Also the facial is something that would have been put on after Kaga left, and it doesn’t make sense to dress up to die.

The trick, the shower, and the red stuff- unfortunately contradictions?
It seems like the shower is going when Ran enters based on the smoke/steam and the sound effect that appears to be a whining shower sound. Since there isn’t water on the ground, I assume it is pouring into the tub. Since there is a lot of steam, I assume there is still hot water and the shower hasn't been running all day, the culprit recently turned it on. Or something was put in the tub in the water to make it look like the room was foggy from hot water...

One possibility is that the red paint was prepared ahead of time to be fake blood. (To make cleanup easier the fake blood could be solidified, so it would peel up and then melt when exposed to water. Would also explain why the shower was left running to make sure it all dissolved away.) The culprit entered the apartment and applied fake blood around Waka after she was drunk and asleep in the bathroom. Chloroform was added to the room to keep Waka down. (When?) Ran walked in when Waka was really only knocked out, was knocked out herself, the red stuff was cleaned up, and then Waka was killed for real. The problem is the state of the body with one eye shut, like Waka was in the process of applying makeup or removing contacts when she was killed and died instantly. Also to make this work the culprit needs to come early once, and has to cleanup while Ran is down, somehow not being knocked out herself. This needs time to evacuate the room or some sort of protection. Finally Waka has on a face mask, if she was asleep drunk, when did she put that on? After Kaga made her lock the door?

If the substance was not used for faking blood then makeup like liquid rouge, lip gloss, or nail polish makes the most sense for red paint-like stuff considering the location. If so, the presence of the stuff in the tub is strange because you would think that makeup is more likely to be found in the sink part of the bathroom.

Perhaps the red product contained chloroform that was injected with the syringe and used to knock out Waka when she used it. Maybe another makeup product contained chloroform and was used to knockout Waka and the red was knocked over accidentally? Ran got close enough to sniff it and pass out, but it seemed too strong for this technique considering how everyone else acted.

Maybe the culprit knocked over the red accidentally because they were clumsy and had to wash it away?

If the culprit was killed instantly while at the sink, it would more naturally explain Waka's winking pose versus both eyes closed due to chloroform knockout. Maybe the culprit knocked over the red stuff in the process and washed it away in the bath because it was easier. They left the shower on because they didn't want someone to notice the bath was wet but off for no reason, and moved Waka's body into the shower room to make it look like she was preparing to shower. The purpose of the chloroform here is unexplained.

Whatever the substance, the culprit turned on and ran the shower most likely to wash away the red paint substance and fill the room with steam.

Culprit is probably not Kaga
I don’t think the culprit is Kaga because he could have set up a “drunk accident” the night before and not implicate himself. A slip and fall would be reasonable. There is no particular reason for Kaga to delay murderous intentions until the morning of the lunch meet, because there wouldn’t be better circumstances for murder then. That means that if Kaga killed Waka later that day when he went to the bathroom, it would be an unpremeditated crime. Kaga wouldn’t have been able to bring chloroform because that does require some premeditation to obtain. Also, I can’t think of a plan for Kaga where using chloroform would make sense, much less leaving it and the murder weapon in the apartment.
Let’s assume Kaga is telling the truth from here on.

Things to think about if the culprit is Rumi.
Rumi has not been wearing contacts in the entire time she has appeared and appears to be very near sighted. The evidence for this is:
She missed Settsu’s key catch.
She had to hold the key up to her face before unlocking the door to make sure she put it in the right way.
She had to hold the phone close to her face to see who she is calling.
Conan told her what the picture was so she didn’t have to bend close to see his phone.
She failed to find Settsu’s watch in the living room, assuming she was looking for it. There was no way she would if her eyesight was that bad.

Poor eyesight means Rumi is more likely to spill something by bumping into it, like whatever the red paint substance (makeup) is.
Also Rumi seemed sure the dead person was Waka until Kaga asked the police if it really was her. Rumi apparently saw Waka was wearing a facial mask. How did she know Waka was the dead person when her vision sucks? Was it an assumption or did she slip up? Could she even see well enough to whack Waka's head well?

Rumi asked Ran to go to the place with the chloroform, and avoided it herself with the phone as an excuse. Sera’s later call seems to indicate phones get fine reception in the apartment and there was no need to take the call on the veranda. The timing of incoming phone call from Settsu could have been convenient coincidence, as Rumi could have also been intending to fake it.

Why would Rumi execute her plan without her glasses/contacts? Isn't it risky?

She could do the fake blood murder version, but the chloroform must have been added to the room early in the morning. This matches with the character of the crime in that there are some preprepared elements and the golf club was on the spot. Also, it sounds like the shower was on when Ran walked in meaning it must have been turned on early in the morning before the meet with Sera. How is it still hot enough to make steam?

Rumi doesn’t seem to relock the door; she seems to go straight for veranda contrary to her testimony. When did she relock? Locking the door extends the time before discovery. Rumi could not throw the bottle and syringe over the veranda because she could not see if below was clear.

Rumi could have hired Sera as an alibi.

Rumi set up the circumstance for the crime early the morning of? If would have to be so if fake blood was involved. Also the room has to be filled with chloroform somehow. It’s also possible Rumi was just clumsy with red makeup of something because her vision is bad and had to wash it off her and down the tub. She then leaves the shower on. How is the water still hot though?

Evidence in favor of the culprit being Settsu.
Settsu has the most suspicion on him because he has the key. Unless it was a crime of unpremeditated passion, killing Waka in the way she was killed would be the worst for him, especially since he took a bathroom break. That said, he could have been counting on everybody to forget where he went. He didn’t know Sera was hired by Rumi after all and meeting Ran and Conan was a coincidence.
Also of issue is why Settsu would need chloroform at all. If he were to commit the crime, he would have to go upstairs, hit her, and leave. The chloroform seems extraneous. What does he need it for? No other suicide/robbery scenarios seem to have been employed that might make chloroform attractive to use. Also, he could have removed the murder weapon or something like that on the way down. Maybe he intended to give Rumi an alibi by "attacking" her or her sister who was supposed to show up with chloroform, not knowing Sera was Rumi's alibi? That would explain why he might divert Rumi away from the bathroom by pretending not to hear her on the phone so Ran would take the fall.

Timing wise, if there was still hot water, him turning on the shower makes more sense than Rumi who would have had to do it earlier. The fake blood theory doesn't work for him because he wouldn't have had the opportunity to hit her later under Kaga, Conan, Sera, and the door opener's watch.

Settsu could manipulate Rumi away from the bathroom and the chloroform if he pretends to have a bad connection.

Settsu was pretty distressed about the sister not being there, and he easily invites Ran to join even though she has Conan with her. He says that an extra kid wouldn't be a big deal, but just 5 seconds earlier he was talking about how difficult it was to get her a reservation at the famous restaurant. Maybe he's so quick to bring them along because he knows they won't make it to the restaurant anyway?

When Settsu hands Conan the coins directly it may imply he was not confident in his vision to hand them back. That said he was able to read his watch in the lobby when he looked at it.
Also, the missing memento wristwatch story is odd. Why did Settsu call Rumi if she already knew to look for the watch? Settsu has a watch in the lobby. Why does he need to find another watch? Where did Settsu’s watch he looked at in the lobby go by the time we get to the last page? His left hand is in his pocket, but on last page we can see his left hand wrist and the watch is not there. He went to the bathroom earlier before and he should have had the watch then, so he has no reason to take it off unless he is hiding the fact he had one to make the missing memento watch story check out. What if Settsu spilled the red on his watch, but then took it off before anyone noticed when he heard the investigation found red in the bath trap?

Apparently didn’t know about Sera being there after death discovered, or that Rumi hired her to watch.

Nobody finds it odd that the ex would be mad at dinner, it doesn't sound like two people who are secretly seeing each other.

Main issues.
How and when was the chloroform released? You could make a “time bomb” by putting the bottle of chloroform behind the bathroom door so it tips over and releases chloroform when the bathroom door is opened? Problem is that it does not use the syringe.
Why was chloroform necessary at all? It seems to complicate the crime with little benefit, especially because it requires premeditation to bring. The fake blood thing could justify it, but contradictions.
When was the vic killed and where? Before or after being chloroformed? In front of the sink or the shower?
Waka should take out her contacts in the sink part of the bathroom. Why is she in the shower part of the bathroom? (Unless she was dragged in there after being hit while taking out contacts in front of the sink.)
What is the red paint substance and why was the shower head left running?
Why would Rumi not bring her contacts?

Other things to think about.
I wonder if Waka falling asleep on the veranda was a test run?
Could Rumi and Settsu be working together or covering for one another? If so, Rumi did not mention Sera to Settsu as he seems to be surprised.
Possibly blood on golf club isn’t Waka’s?
What if the vic fell asleep in the shower room after drinking with makeup still on and prep for facial before bed? Rumi or Settsu could come over early and manipulate the scene.
The chloroform as a red herring?
Chloroform in red liquid which is then cleaned out? Chloroform in the contact solution?
Door not really locked? If door already unlocked Rumi would have had more trouble. The description “giving away inside” does sound like proper bolt sliding and unlocking.

[Paix672]

Already said this on the spoiler cbox, but with Waka's eye winking and the mascara being smudged, it could suggest that the culprit tried to take out her contacts after she died. Which would probably be Rumi, since Settsu doesn't seem to be wearing his contacts.

[Yottas]

So where did her contact go?

Maybe the murderer is wearing them...

Also, is it suspicious that Settsu and Kaga (one of them) called the police instantly?

Yottas

[redangelran]

Already said this on the spoiler cbox, but with Waka's eye winking and the mascara being smudged, it could suggest that the culprit tried to take out her contacts after she died. Which would probably be Rumi, since Settsu doesn't seem to be wearing his contacts.

What could be the reason of taking the contacts off Waka?