*SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 844-

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
User avatar
kei
'How is this a new gadget? You just put a fax machine in a bentou.'

Posts:
196

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by kei »

Kleene Onigiri wrote:
Incomplete-tantei wrote: Then you can't post in here, even if "pretty minor" they're still spoilers... and spoilers from files that haven't been released by DCTP yet are not to be talked in here.
Kleene Onigiri wrote: I think it could also be something like:
"... are on the same side?"
"... know each others secret?"
"... have the same goal"

etc. :V
I cross out "... are on the same side?". I think at this point Conan is pretty sure Sera isn't an enemy... even in the beginning he didn't think Sera was an enemy. Now that the plot has pretty much advanced, particularly in the Mystery Train case, ("Sera has been knocked out by Vermouth"=>Conan knows that) I really doubt Conan has some suspicions of Sera being an enemy.

I like the idea of him asking "...know each other secret?" that would include talking about Akai and him revealing himself his identity to her (assuming he suspects she knows who he is). Plus, "if both of us know each other's secret there's no point hiding it", Conan may think that.

"...have the same goal" You mean destroying BO?
Keep in mind that Conan is talking to Sera and not to the readers. Adding to that he has to be careful what he says because he's around Rand and Sonoko too. So he can't simply blur out: "Hey, Okiya is your brother Akai that invaded the BO" etc XD
That's why I think he could say something like "... are on the same side?" which indicates the BO and that they are allies, without outsider figuring out much.
"... have the same goal" is similar to that. Since it also implies they are allies and have the same enemy/goal.

Something like "... have/know the same brother/oniichan" could also happen :V Since children say "oniichan" to older male people. And Akai/Okiya is Sera's brother :V That would also reveal to sera that Conia knows about her searching for Akai etc.

and yeah, what chekhov said XD Info sharing is not given in detective conan :V
I'm trying to figure out how Sera knows Conia. :P
Image
User avatar
aly_angelflight
Get that squirrel!

Posts:
577

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by aly_angelflight »

kei wrote:
Kleene Onigiri wrote:
Incomplete-tantei wrote: Then you can't post in here, even if "pretty minor" they're still spoilers... and spoilers from files that haven't been released by DCTP yet are not to be talked in here.
Kleene Onigiri wrote: I think it could also be something like:
"... are on the same side?"
"... know each others secret?"
"... have the same goal"

etc. :V
I cross out "... are on the same side?". I think at this point Conan is pretty sure Sera isn't an enemy... even in the beginning he didn't think Sera was an enemy. Now that the plot has pretty much advanced, particularly in the Mystery Train case, ("Sera has been knocked out by Vermouth"=>Conan knows that) I really doubt Conan has some suspicions of Sera being an enemy.

I like the idea of him asking "...know each other secret?" that would include talking about Akai and him revealing himself his identity to her (assuming he suspects she knows who he is). Plus, "if both of us know each other's secret there's no point hiding it", Conan may think that.

"...have the same goal" You mean destroying BO?
Keep in mind that Conan is talking to Sera and not to the readers. Adding to that he has to be careful what he says because he's around Rand and Sonoko too. So he can't simply blur out: "Hey, Okiya is your brother Akai that invaded the BO" etc XD
That's why I think he could say something like "... are on the same side?" which indicates the BO and that they are allies, without outsider figuring out much.
"... have the same goal" is similar to that. Since it also implies they are allies and have the same enemy/goal.

Something like "... have/know the same brother/oniichan" could also happen :V Since children say "oniichan" to older male people. And Akai/Okiya is Sera's brother :V That would also reveal to sera that Conia knows about her searching for Akai etc.

and yeah, what chekhov said XD Info sharing is not given in detective conan :V
I'm trying to figure out how Sera knows Conia. :P
Though, Conia probably does know Sera's looking for her brother. XD
Image
"I suppose he could have changed. I myself have noticed my growing resemblance to a daffodil.”
3DS Friend Code: 2723-9258-9521
User avatar
Pmofmalasia

Posts:
412

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by Pmofmalasia »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: I don't know how much information Akai and Conan are sharing at this point. It would be just like both of them not to have informed each other of what they know/think about Sera. Conan consistently fails to inform others what he is really thinking to the point where highly avoidable stupid situations happen - e.g the Agasa invites over both Vermouth suspects debacle. Akai isn't the most outgoing either, not informing his coworkers of his plans.  
True, but given that Conan is helping Akai hide his identity as part of a plan between the two of them, it seems like they would be sharing information to help keep this plan viable, since Sera and Amuro know Akai very well.  Letting Conan know about them makes Conan more cautious about Okiya around them.  If Akai was still being Akai, and it wasn't for this plan between them, then I'd agree with you 100%.  I get what you're saying though, since nobody shares information in DC it's still very likely that Akai hasn't told Conan anything >_<
3DS FC: 4983-5030-7788. Add me, Pokemon trainers!
User avatar
Incomplete-tantei
"No Pain, No Gain."

Posts:
359

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by Incomplete-tantei »

Kleene Onigiri wrote:
Incomplete-tantei wrote: Then you can't post in here, even if "pretty minor" they're still spoilers... and spoilers from files that haven't been released by DCTP yet are not to be talked in here.
Kleene Onigiri wrote: I think it could also be something like:
"... are on the same side?"
"... know each others secret?"
"... have the same goal"

etc. :V
I cross out "... are on the same side?". I think at this point Conan is pretty sure Sera isn't an enemy... even in the beginning he didn't think Sera was an enemy. Now that the plot has pretty much advanced, particularly in the Mystery Train case, ("Sera has been knocked out by Vermouth"=>Conan knows that) I really doubt Conan has some suspicions of Sera being an enemy.

I like the idea of him asking "...know each other secret?" that would include talking about Akai and him revealing himself his identity to her (assuming he suspects she knows who he is). Plus, "if both of us know each other's secret there's no point hiding it", Conan may think that.

"...have the same goal" You mean destroying BO?
Keep in mind that Conan is talking to Sera and not to the readers. Adding to that he has to be careful what he says because he's around Rand and Sonoko too. So he can't simply blur out: "Hey, Okiya is your brother Akai that invaded the BO" etc XD
That's why I think he could say something like "... are on the same side?" which indicates the BO and that they are allies, without outsider figuring out much.
Well, I think Conan would at least try making sure only Sera hears the question. Even though, at first he didn't wanna ask like that in public, but now he sort of has to.. so if it's a question involving plot development he'd likely make sure Sera's the only one capable of hearing it and then Sera would (normally) do the same while responding.
User avatar
Kleene Onigiri
Community Rice Warrior
*punches Akonyl*

Posts:
2479

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by Kleene Onigiri »

kei wrote:
Kleene Onigiri wrote:
Incomplete-tantei wrote: Then you can't post in here, even if "pretty minor" they're still spoilers... and spoilers from files that haven't been released by DCTP yet are not to be talked in here.
Kleene Onigiri wrote: I think it could also be something like:
"... are on the same side?"
"... know each others secret?"
"... have the same goal"

etc. :V
I cross out "... are on the same side?". I think at this point Conan is pretty sure Sera isn't an enemy... even in the beginning he didn't think Sera was an enemy. Now that the plot has pretty much advanced, particularly in the Mystery Train case, ("Sera has been knocked out by Vermouth"=>Conan knows that) I really doubt Conan has some suspicions of Sera being an enemy.

I like the idea of him asking "...know each other secret?" that would include talking about Akai and him revealing himself his identity to her (assuming he suspects she knows who he is). Plus, "if both of us know each other's secret there's no point hiding it", Conan may think that.

"...have the same goal" You mean destroying BO?
Keep in mind that Conan is talking to Sera and not to the readers. Adding to that he has to be careful what he says because he's around Rand and Sonoko too. So he can't simply blur out: "Hey, Okiya is your brother Akai that invaded the BO" etc XD
That's why I think he could say something like "... are on the same side?" which indicates the BO and that they are allies, without outsider figuring out much.
"... have the same goal" is similar to that. Since it also implies they are allies and have the same enemy/goal.

Something like "... have/know the same brother/oniichan" could also happen :V Since children say "oniichan" to older male people. And Akai/Okiya is Sera's brother :V That would also reveal to sera that Conia knows about her searching for Akai etc.

and yeah, what chekhov said XD Info sharing is not given in detective conan :V
I'm trying to figure out how Sera knows Conia. :P
While Sera was stalking Conan, Sera and Conia met in the same bush. As fellow stalker buddies, they immediately got best friends :3

I think that the answer to "what was Conan about to say" will need 30 chapters till it's revealed :P
Image
Keyhole drawn by Yuri Iwamoto <3
Spoiler: Secret Santa gift from Commi-Ninja <3
A Black Organization Christmas Carol (need to fix the link)
3DS Friend Code: 4141 3202 3514

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Giff holidays
User avatar
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts:
2684

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Xpost from DCW because I was hoping to talk to someone about the case.

This reminds me of a cryptography puzzle Image
I think this one is the asymmetric key version with a three pass protocol. Gosho seems to have set the trick up so we can assume the locks are unpickable and there are no spare keys for the locks. (That doesn't mean there are no extra lock and key sets though!) Even so, there are a whole bunch of attack routes available assuming the box is not authenticated. For the sake of explaining, the sender Kasuga who puts the fruit in will be called K. Takeki, the critic with the other lock is the receiver and will be called T. The man in the middle attacker will be M.

1) The attacker could swap out the box if both sender and receiver can't instantly recognize they were sent a different box or locks than normal. If M has two spare locks, fruitlike objects, and a spare box, he could intercept the box coming from K and put his own lock on it and send it back to K, making K think T received it. K takes off his own lock thinking the lock on there currently is Ts and sends to box back where M intercepts it, opens his own lock and peeks inside the box. Meanwhile M sends his own box with his lock and fruits to T, so T thinks it is from K. The three pass is carried out with M in the middle and T winds up with M's box, thinking it is from K. If this is what happened when T opened the box to publicly reveal the contents, K would find out he had been tricked, but T wouldn't know unless K told him. The trick would not be discovered if M could fully complete the exchange with K first, so M could put the same fruits in his box to T.

2) The contents of the box don't seem to be authenticated either -- if the sender did not include a special secret item in the box that the receiver is expecting then the receiver can't tell if an attacker tampered with the contents of the box. M, using the second version the attack described above, could completely get away with it.

3) Trick box: if the box can open any other way, anyone could fiddle with it.

4) A non-trustworthy receiver or sender could collaborate with M to fix the final contents. I'm going to guess K is likely trustworthy because he will feel the brunt of the blame if cheating occurs. T's side though seems to have holes even though T himself was probably trustworthy.

To review the security details known so far, the security of the sender Kasuga's lock and key are unknown, but the receiving Takeki thinks the lock is in good working order. I think we can assume the receiver's lock is completely open to swapping because it was plonked in an easily accessible drawer. The receiver's key is locked up in a bank vault until the show and seems to have been escorted to the premises by assumed trustworthy bankers. Anyone who could tamper with the vault or direct the bankers could switch the receiver's key. There is a brief window during the key hand-off where the person passing the key to Osamu Kenzaki could pull a sleight of hand to swap the keys. I think we can assume Osamu is trustworthy as an unlocker because he is a recurring character. The three-pass exchange itself seems to be fairly lax, suggesting that M messing with the exchanges is a viable option.

The sender Kasuga will likely take the brunt of the suspicion for the murder given the situation so far, and seeing how his reputation was already being doubted, I think he wouldn't have chosen this method as long as this crime was premeditated. Taruoka, as the one doing the handoff and directing the others (maybe even the bankers?) is in the best manipulator position. I think I'm most suspicious of him for now. Furuya had access to the receiver's lock and was not watched, so he had opportunity, just not quite as much as Taruoka who handled the key too.
User avatar
Atraos

Posts:
99

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by Atraos »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: Xpost from DCW because I was hoping to talk to someone about the case.

This reminds me of a cryptography puzzle Image
I think this one is the asymmetric key version with a three pass protocol. Gosho seems to have set the trick up so we can assume the locks are unpickable and there are no spare keys for the locks. (That doesn't mean there are no extra lock and key sets though!) Even so, there are a whole bunch of attack routes available assuming the box is not authenticated. For the sake of explaining, the sender Kasuga who puts the fruit in will be called K. Takeki, the critic with the other lock is the receiver and will be called T. The man in the middle attacker will be M.

1) The attacker could swap out the box if both sender and receiver can't instantly recognize they were sent a different box or locks than normal. If M has two spare locks, fruitlike objects, and a spare box, he could intercept the box coming from K and put his own lock on it and send it back to K, making K think T received it. K takes off his own lock thinking the lock on there currently is Ts and sends to box back where M intercepts it, opens his own lock and peeks inside the box. Meanwhile M sends his own box with his lock and fruits to T, so T thinks it is from K. The three pass is carried out with M in the middle and T winds up with M's box, thinking it is from K. If this is what happened when T opened the box to publicly reveal the contents, K would find out he had been tricked, but T wouldn't know unless K told him. The trick would not be discovered if M could fully complete the exchange with K first, so M could put the same fruits in his box to T.

2) The contents of the box don't seem to be authenticated either -- if the sender did not include a special secret item in the box that the receiver is expecting then the receiver can't tell if an attacker tampered with the contents of the box. M, using the second version the attack described above, could completely get away with it.

3) Trick box: if the box can open any other way, anyone could fiddle with it.

4) A non-trustworthy receiver or sender could collaborate with M to fix the final contents. I'm going to guess K is likely trustworthy because he will feel the brunt of the blame if cheating occurs. T's side though seems to have holes even though T himself was probably trustworthy.

To review the security details known so far, the security of the sender Kasuga's lock and key are unknown, but the receiving Takeki thinks the lock is in good working order. I think we can assume the receiver's lock is completely open to swapping because it was plonked in an easily accessible drawer. The receiver's key is locked up in a bank vault until the show and seems to have been escorted to the premises by assumed trustworthy bankers. Anyone who could tamper with the vault or direct the bankers could switch the receiver's key. There is a brief window during the key hand-off where the person passing the key to Osamu Kenzaki could pull a sleight of hand to swap the keys. I think we can assume Osamu is trustworthy as an unlocker because he is a recurring character. The three-pass exchange itself seems to be fairly lax, suggesting that M messing with the exchanges is a viable option.

The sender Kasuga will likely take the brunt of the suspicion for the murder given the situation so far, and seeing how his reputation was already being doubted, I think he wouldn't have chosen this method as long as this crime was premeditated. Taruoka, as the one doing the handoff and directing the others (maybe even the bankers?) is in the best manipulator position. I think I'm most suspicious of him for now. Furuya had access to the receiver's lock and was not watched, so he had opportunity, just not quite as much as Taruoka who handled the key too.
Wonderfull theories as ever Chek. I particulary liked the Man-in-the-middle idea and scolded myself for not thinking of this :D
Say, could it be, that you have a computer science or cyber security background?
User avatar
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts:
2684

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Atraos wrote: Say, could it be, that you have a computer science or cyber security background?
I can program on an embarrassingly basic level in python. Probably about half of what I know about cryptography came from a Scientific American/Popular Science feature from the era of dialup and AOL -- a pretty strong indication I know very little about the topic. :P
If you are scolding yourself, perhaps you have a computer background?
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on January 25th, 2013, 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
angelranchan
A Ran Mouri Fan & a Crazy Intruder/Interuptor >:D

Posts:
876

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 844-846

Post by angelranchan »

I wonder what Conan will discuss with Sera.."You and me..."
Image

Image
User avatar
Incomplete-tantei
"No Pain, No Gain."

Posts:
359

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 844-846

Post by Incomplete-tantei »

Actually...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VNDBAStX-4

It will be something similar to this :p
User avatar
Atraos

Posts:
99

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by Atraos »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Atraos wrote: Say, could it be, that you have a computer science or cyber security background?
I can program on an embarrassingly basic level in python. Probably about half of what I know about cryptography came from a Scientific American/Popular Science feature from the era of dialup and AOL -- a pretty strong indication I know very little about the topic. :P
If you are scolding yourself, perhaps you have a computer background?
Yeah, in fact I do. Am currently studying CS and before that I became a little notorious hacker roaming our school network, capturing many passwords through man in the middle attacks (luckily, I was never caught :D)
User avatar
Incomplete-tantei
"No Pain, No Gain."

Posts:
359

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by Incomplete-tantei »

I know it's a little off-topic but, is there a break after file 846? I don't think so but, just that I don't see any new "discussions thread" of the new case and since they come out pretty early(usually around friday).. or is it just that spoilers for 847 are not ready yet?

Not that I really care, I don't read spoilers. Just wanted to know if there's a break or not after 846.
MaitreDétective

Posts:
691

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by MaitreDétective »

Incomplete-tantei wrote: I know it's a little off-topic but, is there a break after file 846?
yup
User avatar
Incomplete-tantei
"No Pain, No Gain."

Posts:
359

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 844-846

Post by Incomplete-tantei »

OK, thanks :/
orangpelupa

Posts:
27

Re: *SPOILER FREE* Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files

Post by orangpelupa »

Edit:
ugh found the answer by re reading the file :D
Post Reply