Discussion Thread - File 898 : Who is Rum & Scotch? And who is Vermouth for Anokata?

[chinpokomon]

Rei wants to destroy the BO like Akai wants

where does it say that? burbon is one of the BO top informatives, kinda weird that he wants to destroy them

[Nemomon]

Akai said that there: http://www.dctp.ws/V85-Reader/V85-4Read/A11.html Perhaps not directly, but since we know who really Rei is, we can understand the meaning of these words.

[ErraticSpark]

aside from the whole rum thing the one thing I didn't got about that chapter is why burbon didn't turn akai to the BO? he knows he's alive so what the hell? by that he's also saving kir so I find it very strange and also why is he still working at that resturant? what reason could he have for staying?

I don't think Bourbon can turn Akai over to the Organization without having him in custody. He knows he's alive, yes, but doesn't know where he is and can't tell what happened that night because he needs to keep his own ties with the Japanese secret police from being discovered.

[User 4869]

Rei wants to destroy the BO like Akai wants

where does it say that? burbon is one of the BO top informatives, kinda weird that he wants to destroy them

You didn't read last 2 cases don't you. (Teacher assault case and Scarlet series)
http://www.dctp.ws/V84-Reader/V84-10Read/A3.html
http://www.dctp.ws/V85-Reader/V85-4Read/A11.html
http://www.dctp.ws/V85-Reader/V85-4Read/A14.html

[caribou]

I agree with the theory that Scotch is Wataru Date... I suspect that he and Akai were infiltrating the BO at the same time, Akai figured out that he was also a spy, and tried to uncover his identity to the BO to get himself up the ranks in the BO. That maybe led to the 'accidental' death of Date? (this part I'm not sure because Vermouth said he was killed before they could find his true identity.) But it would explain Amuro's hatred for Akai, and why Amuro then tried to do the same thing to Akai, until Akai reminded him that the greater goal is more important than furthering his personal revenge and working together would have greater upsides.

I also think Vermouth is probably the boss's mother, because this identity would immediately give away some sort of secret that she was shrunk sometime ago and explains why her relation needs to be kept a secret. whereas if she was just his sister or something it may not be immediately obvious.

[chinpokomon]

aside from the whole rum thing the one thing I didn't got about that chapter is why burbon didn't turn akai to the BO? he knows he's alive so what the hell? by that he's also saving kir so I find it very strange and also why is he still working at that resturant? what reason could he have for staying?

I don't think Bourbon can turn Akai over to the Organization without having him in custody. He knows he's alive, yes, but doesn't know where he is and can't tell what happened that night because he needs to keep his own ties with the Japanese secret police from being discovered.

isn't this a little bit reptitive? first we discover that kir was a CIA and now burbon is one of the secret police? is the BO really exist or it's made of people from different organizations that think there is a BO and try to take it down?(joking)

and on the same page, we got FBI, CIA and now the secret police? since when the BO is Beyond Order? the plot is for me anyway starting to get a little out of hand with all these 3rd party organizations. is the BO that strong that the whole world is needed in order to take them out? in that case i vote for anokata to be the US president or something along those lines if their power is so strong.

[Elixir]

I suspect that he and Akai were infiltrating the BO at the same time, Akai figured out that he was also a spy, and tried to uncover his identity to the BO to get himself up the ranks in the BO. That maybe led to the 'accidental' death of Date? (this part I'm not sure because Vermouth said he was killed before they could find his true identity.)

Akai wouldn't expose someone as a spy since they both work on the same goal as explained by this:

..until Akai reminded him that the greater goal is more important than furthering his personal revenge and working together would have greater upsides.

Akai moved up ranks because he used his connections with Akemi, then Shiho.

Vermouth might imply that:
1. Scotch was exposed as a spy and was killed immediately before they know his real name.
2. Scotch was killed accidentally then his spy status was revealed.
It is possible that Akai thought that Scotch was a true BO member, or vice versa, and they might had fired with each other in retaliation.

[Kor]

Since this becomes really common, I've decided to make this post. Anyone who wants to gather more information on the subject, or give suggestions regarding the content in this post is welcome to help.

Reasons why Date Wataru isn't Scotch

(note: this mainly assumes that the him Akai refers to is also Scotch from the Secret Police, which at this point seems like a very logical conclusion)

1) The timeline doesn't support this theory
Akai was kicked out of the Black Organization about 2 years before the series.
Date Wataru died about 1 year before the series
The antipathy between Akai and Bourbon dates back to the time Akai was still in the organization. If Scotch is Date, Amuro can't be angry at Akai for what happened to "him" because Date was still alive and well while Akai was in the organization.

2) Scotch's name is unknown to the Black Organization
Vermouth notes Scotch was killed before the Black Organization got his name
Date died in a car accident.
Even though as of late the Black Organization seems more and more like a dysfunctional organization with poor management, based on what we know of the Organization, they should have resources and the ability to discover who Scotch was, because he was an identified officer. Moreover, why would Amuro hate Akai for Date's death? It clearly wasn't his fault.

3) Date Wataru had a pretty busy life
Here are some of the things we know Date had in his life:
He was a competent police officer
He was in charge of training Takagi
Not only Date had a girlfriend, he also spent a lot of time with her.
It's very unlikely that someone like Date even could be an infiltrator in the Organization, because he had quite a bit going on in his life. Why would someone who's in the Secret Police (and infiltrating the Organization) train another officer at the same time? Wouldn't it be dangerous for him to have a girlfriend while he's infiltrating a dangerous organization?

4) Date and Amuro
While we can say without a doubt that Date and Amuro knew each other, Date wasn't aware of what Amuro has been doing. If both of them were together in Secret Police AND investigating the same organization, why did Date not know what Amuro was up to?

-------

This was mentioned by a couple of people in the spoiler cbox:

Aly-chan: And PSB cops in Japan are actually supposed to be removed from lists of active officers...

Aly-chan: Because it would be bad if the type of criminals they usually deal with target them for their affiliation with that division.

Considering this, Date was pretty unlikely to be in the Secret Police. That said, as of yet I couldn't find a source that clarifies if the above is correct, so if anyone could help find such a source, it would be much obliged.

[Black Demon]

Nice post Kor. It's also heavily implied that Amuro wasn't aware of Date's death until Takagi's kidnap case: http://www.dctp.ws/V76-Reader/V76-9Read ... 04_011.png

[MoonRaven]

thank you Kor. I was already getting annoyed with all those people bringing it up again and again.

[AICHAN]

THANK YOU Kor,I was tired to see people being so sure that Scotch is Date,when it doesn't makes sense.

[soul_dreamer]

I actually would like to see scenes between Rei and Date, though at moment I'm more interested in Scotch's character and under what circumstances he died.

[Detective Doroshi]

aside from the whole rum thing the one thing I didn't got about that chapter is why burbon didn't turn akai to the BO? he knows he's alive so what the hell? by that he's also saving kir so I find it very strange and also why is he still working at that resturant? what reason could he have for staying?

I think Bourbon did not turn Akai to the BO, because (as Akai said) they were not to forget their real focus, that of capturing the Boss of the BO and the "wolves" as he said. So Akai meant that they (Akai, Rei and Kir) were to work together to succeed in that mission.

About Bourbon still working at the restaurant also seems weird to me. I don't know, but perhaps that he does not want the BO to become suspicious about him, leaving the restaurant, just like this.

[Detective Doroshi]

So, I see... I'm really sorry if I said Scotch could be Date ^^" I didn't have that much information about his death and all ^^"
Anyway! Then if Date is eliminated from the list of possible people who could be Scotch, it could be also possible that Scotch has never been shown neither in the manga nor in the anime yet.

[Shinichi Edogawa]

You don't have to be sorry to make theories about a manga^^.