(SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the train

[aioria0807]

Hello everybody, this is my first post here in this forum, just in the same situation as Sake . Two things I have to say:

1) In reply to sstimson's last post, where he says that Bourbon should be worried, I really don't think he ever noticed hoy Vermouth expression changed while she realized that the whole operation was a failure. He was really worried by the shadow he saw in the train. He deduced it could have been Akai, so all the Akai's death was a big fake. If you pay attention to him as he goes off the train, he is constantly watching over his shoulder, looking for Akai and ready to take shelter if he recognizes him. That's why he is not paying attention to Vermouth expression changin.

2) I would like to see what you think will happen to Sera's fixation with Haibara. If you recall, whent the two of them finally meets on the train, Sera says to Haibara that she wants a word with her later, emphasizing the whole phrase. So I just was thinking what will happen with this. Maybe Sera is now more worried about Akai-Vermouth appearing in front of her just like that, and he knoking her out. Or maybe Sera will continue her first line of investigation, going after Haibara to "have a word" with her.

Well, I hope you find this last part as interesintg as I do, perhaps it is not that important after all. Also, if you think this is just a secondary plot, fell free to say so, as I said before, I'm new here, so I don't have the same experience as you do.

[Steffi]

There is only one thing i´m anxious about.
Wasn´t Amuro interested in Okiya who he thought to be Agasa.
What happens if Amuro thinks Okiya is Akai or is his accomplice? Amuro is a really good detective I think he would be smart enough to investigate towards this.
My thought is that he would investigate Agasa´s house and who is living there too?

Okay, if you get my message you are really smart.
Today my english is really bad.

[AICHAN]

There is only one thing i´m anxious about.
Wasn´t Amuro interested in Okiya who he thought to be Agasa.
What happens if Amuro thinks Okiya is Akai or is his accomplice? Amuro is a really good detective I think he would be smart enough to investigate towards this.
My thought is that he would investigate Agasa´s house and who is living there too?

Okay, if you get my message you are really smart.
Today my english is really bad.

Don't worry your english is good^^I've seen worse in this forum.
And yeah I think he will investigate on Agasa(because he wanted to meet him during the Date case).That would be nice if he meet Haibara and make the link between her and Sherry^^

[Steffi]

Thanks.
That would be really interesting but really bad for Ai and Conan.
I´m not sure if he would keep quite. But we don´t know what he promised to Vermouth. One thing is certain he don´t know that Ai is Sherry - yet.

[sstimson]

1) In reply to sstimson's last post, where he says that Bourbon should be worried, I really don't think he ever noticed hoy Vermouth expression changed while she realized that the whole operation was a failure. He was really worried by the shadow he saw in the train. He deduced it could have been Akai, so all the Akai's death was a big fake. If you pay attention to him as he goes off the train, he is constantly watching over his shoulder, looking for Akai and ready to take shelter if he recognizes him. That's why he is not paying attention to Vermouth expression changin.

I kind of doubt that. At least his subconscious would have caught it. After all it is not just visual, there is also the way she talks and her body language. Also he did talk to her after the fact with his question. Think this way: They just won a great battle. But when he talks to Vermouth, instead of being happy and cheerful, she serious and maybe worried. The way she answered his question speaks volumes. Instead of her bubbly, happy self, she is very serious. Bourbon's subconscious should catch that. And later if he does not know the plan went wrong, he will ask why she is acting like they lost and she will tell him they lost. That might make him think. I saw her blow up, but if it was not her, how did she know so much? Now that I think about it, it was like someone was feeding her the answers and that means . . .. Then he is going to get very worried. We just need to wait for that shoe to drop.

I do have more questions and reasons about why I think Akai did not make an appearance, but for now I will work on them and make sure I am clear for a change. So expect them later.

[Feb914]

1) In reply to sstimson's last post, where he says that Bourbon should be worried, I really don't think he ever noticed hoy Vermouth expression changed while she realized that the whole operation was a failure. He was really worried by the shadow he saw in the train. He deduced it could have been Akai, so all the Akai's death was a big fake. If you pay attention to him as he goes off the train, he is constantly watching over his shoulder, looking for Akai and ready to take shelter if he recognizes him. That's why he is not paying attention to Vermouth expression changin.

I kind of doubt that. At least his subconscious would have caught it. After all it is not just visual, there is also the way she talks and her body language. Also he did talk to her after the fact with his question. Think this way: They just won a great battle. But when he talks to Vermouth, instead of being happy and cheerful, she serious and maybe worried. The way she answered his question speaks volumes. Instead of her bubbly, happy self, she is very serious. Bourbon's subconscious should catch that. And later if he does not know the plan went wrong, he will ask why she is acting like they lost and she will tell him they lost. That might make him think. I saw her blow up, but if it was not her, how did she know so much? Now that I think about it, it was like someone was feeding her the answers and that means . . .. Then he is going to get very worried. We just need to wait for that shoe to drop.

I do have more questions and reasons about why I think Akai did not make an appearance, but for now I will work on them and make sure I am clear for a change. So expect them later.

don't overthink too much. from what can be seen in the manga, Bourbon is already absorbed by Akai's appearance to notice Vermouth. Not to forget that Vermouth is good in keeping secrets to herself, so unless she wants to blow Haibara's cover (which also means her beloved silver bullet's and Kir's) she will not tell anyone about their "failure".

[aioria0807]

don't overthink too much. from what can be seen in the manga, Bourbon is already absorbed by Akai's appearance to notice Vermouth. Not to forget that Vermouth is good in keeping secrets to herself, so unless she wants to blow Haibara's cover (which also means her beloved silver bullet's and Kir's) she will not tell anyone about their "failure".

You have a point on that. It's dangerous to Vermouth to tell Bourbon that they have failed. It would contradict how she acts regarding her knowlege about Conan's and Ai's true identity. She would be asked just how she knows that they failed. It would be difficult for her to answer that without giving away everithing she knows in secret.

[ShinRan4ver]

Here a real question. While vermouth can escape easy, since Korogou is on the train, bourbon can not just leave. So he is as good as caught. But will Conan use his knowledge and thus tip off the BO, or play it the other way?

And another thing without Vermouth he is stuck with his own face, and I feel if he tried to run, He will get caught easy. He is kind of forced to plan the waiting game, and hope he only saw a ghost.

You and I are going to disagree. NO chance of leaving the station. Note it said all passengers are going to be questioned. If and this is a huge if the FBI could get there in time, then they have netted both Bourbon and Vermouth. Haibara was telling KID what to say so she knows now for sure who Bourbon is ( A earlier question now proven true). And Both Yukiko and Conan know who Vermouth is. Way too many Police for the Copter that Bourbon talked about to rescue them. The FBI can simply say those two are wanted for questioning through official channels, and thus the Japanese Police will pick them up. Bourbon only hope is to play dumb. Vermouth will indeed escape. But Bourbon face is now known and as he was and maybe still is Korogou helper, he is known by a lot of people. He is as good as caught.

Warning, 825 spoiler

Spoiler: Game Over Bro

[Kor]

Two of my questions got answered. Haibara was indeed the one who talked with Kid. Haibara didn't know about the plan until it was already in motion, so.....Conan is an ass. So this plan also relied heavily on Haibara doing things as Conan predicted. This does show development since episode 345 in showing that Conan can now predict her better, but it still shows that Conan doesn't put Haibara's feelings before his plans. I guess it's a conflict of whether or not the end justifies the means.

[queenmisanagi]

Sstimson actually posted something that didn't hit a nerve! Good job
Yeah, their plan failed and Vermouth can only concede defeat and let Ai live for now. Amuro probably didn't know exactly how their plan failed (that Sherry was not real) but did suspect about Akai's death.

@queen misanagi: Vermouth currently only wants one person die - Sherry/Ai. Probably not out of grudge but I'm just guessing. Other than that she doesn't have hard feelings toward anyone else -- not Kid, not Conan, not even Yukiko who interfered with her plan in her face.
And only Vermouth knew that was Kid. She likely won't report it to BO since she just told them Sherry died. Most of all she secretly wants Conan, the silver bullet, to take on the BO.

Thanks! Hopefully we get to know more about Vermouth's real intention in the upcoming BO arcs, and also why she hates Sherry so much (and the Miyanos too?)

[ShinRan4ver]

Two of my questions got answered. Haibara was indeed the one who talked with Kid. Haibara didn't know about the plan until it was already in motion, so.....Conan is an ass. So this plan also relied heavily on Haibara doing things as Conan predicted. This does show development since episode 345 in showing that Conan can now predict her better, but it still shows that Conan doesn't put Haibara's feelings before his plans. I guess it's a conflict of wnanhether or not the end justifies the means.

I think Conan is overly protective of Haibara, because a. Akemi died in his arms and that scarred him pretty deeply, b. Haibara screwed up his "plan" in episode 345.

[Akako]

If the Black Org receives a confirmation that Akai is dead, then will Akai have to assume his 'Okiya' identity until the end of the series?

[sstimson]

Two of my questions got answered. Haibara was indeed the one who talked with Kid. Haibara didn't know about the plan until it was already in motion, so.....Conan is an ass. So this plan also relied heavily on Haibara doing things as Conan predicted. This does show development since episode 345 in showing that Conan can now predict her better, but it still shows that Conan doesn't put Haibara's feelings before his plans. I guess it's a conflict of wnanhether or not the end justifies the means.

I think Conan is overly protective of Haibara, because a. Akemi died in his arms and that scarred him pretty deeply, b. Haibara screwed up his "plan" in episode 345.

It still raises the question was Haibara being watched the whole time. We know Okiya was doing it. So where were the other characters - Agasa, Korogou, Ran, and any others who might have kept a eye on Haibara. She could have wander off and in to trouble. Who prevented that from happening?

[Kor]

Two of my questions got answered. Haibara was indeed the one who talked with Kid. Haibara didn't know about the plan until it was already in motion, so.....Conan is an ass. So this plan also relied heavily on Haibara doing things as Conan predicted. This does show development since episode 345 in showing that Conan can now predict her better, but it still shows that Conan doesn't put Haibara's feelings before his plans. I guess it's a conflict of wnanhether or not the end justifies the means.

I think Conan is overly protective of Haibara, because a. Akemi died in his arms and that scarred him pretty deeply, b. Haibara screwed up his "plan" in episode 345.

She screwed up his plan in 345 because he didn't tell her anything and didn't manage to predict her actions. This time he did manage to predict her actions, though it could have taken a bad turn. You could call that "character development" since now Conan knows her better and can predict her better, but it's not a positive development because Conan still shows that he isn't going to trust Haibara enough to tell her the plan beforehand and it still shows that he doesn't put people's feelings before his plans (except for Ran at least)

[ShinRan4ver]

I think Conan cares a lot about protecting Haibara, but he also resent Haibara withholding vital information regarding the BO(both from her memory and the floppy she claimed to have lost at Haido City Hotel). Haibara probably withheld these information probably to protect Conan from pursuing BO too agressively and killing himself in the process and resent Conan for not telling her about the BO threats because he thinks "she is not as tough as she looks(this was said during the Hattori Jodie case)". So the "the less you know the safer you are" feeling is shared by ConAi and you can't really just single out Conan for it, eventually they will trust each other more but that could be 300+ files away.