Detective Conan Files 809-811 Discussion Thread: Room Traces

[Misztina]

So close... *insert 9gag picture*

Thanks for the confirmation. ^____^

[stella007]

I could not understand Conan for quite a while.
He did not doubt Amuro, Sera or Okiya. He does not notice that they may be in extreme  danger. He does not know that Bourbon is close on their heels. Actaully, he always knows if they have been in danger or if the Bo chase after them.
Do I get a wrong idea? =/

I like the latest file and I think personally that Okiya = Akai = Bourbon. Could it be that Okiya is evil and wants to hurt Ai?
Sera saw Ai's picture and realized her brother's itentions? I could imagine that she will team up with Amuro to stop Akai. I don't really know why he should want to hurt Ai.

[nzrock]

Ok I updated my translation post, added everything except page14, I got stuck on a word and is still trying to figure out how to put it into a understandable sentence...

All done!

Make sure to read the new important info and stuff, before reading the story~

[Wakarimashita]

Thanks a lot. ^^

[mihai]

Also

Spoiler: 4koma

[img width=600]http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/324/worstluck.png[/img]

a very nice one again I was picturing Ayumi saying "there was a case and he and Haibara missed the bus."

[rrizqiw]

hmm i just realized it seem conan is force to use shinichi voice again. no agasa, kogoro, and sonoko

[leokiko]

Spoiler:

In File 800, Vermouth said to Bourbon "It seems you've gained some trust for the time being…" mean Okiya had gained trust from Haibara. And "You will abide by the promise you made to me, right?", since File 811 last 2 pics, Okiya said "Promise with her.." mean promise from Vermouth right? So it means Okiya is Bourbon.

Spoiler:

No, he meant the promise he made with Akemi, to protect Haibara. Okiya=Akai.

Spoiler:

Now Gosho planned to make us believing Okiya=Akai (Dai-kun), it may eventually turn out Okiya and Akai is different person.

Just like the old days when Jodie and Vermouth are speculated as same person but they are completely different persons eventually, Jodie copied Vermouth's quote in order not to forget Vermouth who killed her parents.

Akemi's boyfriend is originally Okiya who is Bourbon, but when Akai infiltrated the Black Organization as Moroboshi Dai, he stole Okiya's girlfriend Akemi, that's why Bourbon hated Akai. So Okiya copied Akai's quote "Don't make that kind of face" in order not to forget Akai.

Spoiler:

But Okiya being Bourbon doesn't make sense. Conan's actions of letting him live right next to them while giving the lame reason that ''a holmes fan can't be a bad person'' are stupid.

Spoiler:

Conan (Shinichi)'s personality is individualism, when coming to deduction or Holmes, he ignored the advices from people around him, like he always ignored Haibara's warning about the consequence of taking APTX4869 continuously and wanted 100 pills, especially during London Case.

Conan is under manipulation of trust from Okiya. Don't you want to see Conan screwed up once.

If Conan was someone that made such huge mistakes, he would have been dead already. And if Okiya was Bourbon, THEY would have been dead already. That are too many hints that point that Okiya is not Bourbon against Okiya = Bourbon. I agree that Gosho is giving too many obvious hints regarding Okiya=Akai, but for who is Bourbon and Scar Akai, it's not so obvious yet.

[S.Vineyard]

Subaru never manipulated Conan. (Beside, he isn't that easy to manipulate. It is actually Conan who's manipulating people.)

If think finally wants to clear up the Okiya storyline, since it's already longer than the "Vermouth Arc".

Also we still don't know if Haibara is actually blaming "Moroboshi Dai" for Akemi's death.
(It was shown that Akai feels very guilty about this, which is his main reason why he still hasn't talked to Haibara directly..)

[User 4869]

hmm i just realized it seem conan is force to use shinichi voice again. no agasa, kogoro, and sonoko

But with Takagi, Conan just have to point out the clue.

[Borealis]

hmm i just realized it seem conan is force to use shinichi voice again. no agasa, kogoro, and sonoko

But with Takagi, Conan just have to point out the clue.

^this

[ten]

my case notes for @-810:

Spoiler:

Takagi - Takes 7 min to go from 3rd to 26th floor via stairs. None of the three suspects appear on the elevator camera prior to 7:30 am.

What they said:
Tsukihara (8min coffee steam) - heard alarm from Ogino's room (at 7:30 am), heard elevator noise from above but didn't come, so took stairs
Ogino (6min beer froth) - heard Sodesaki (jingling keychain) going down stairs ahead of him
Sodesaki (9min cigarette smoke) - on arriving at the scene heard Tsukihara's ringtone from among the crowd

Timeline:

07:25 am : "Come kill me if you think you can ..." - email from victim
07:30 am : "HE FELL!" (scream)
~07:31 am : Conan & Takagi Arrive on scene
~07:32 am : Conan resends the email, identifying the three suspects
~07:33 am : Conan, Takagi, and rest decide to go up to suspects rooms

If all three inferences from the suspects are truthful and correct (and they made no stops / separate trips):

The order they leave their apartment is:
1 Tsukihara hears Ogino's alarm, leaves apartment, waits for elevator (upstairs) but doesn't come, and then heads down stairs
2 Then, Sodesaki heads down stairs
3 Then, Ogino heads down stairs, hearing Sodesaki's keychain ahead of him.

Then the order they must arrive at the scene (since they all took the stairs):
1 Tsukihara
2 Sodesaki (hearing Tsukihara's ring tone)
3 Ogino

So, the sequence for the sounds (source) are as follows:
scream (witness on street), bell ringing (alarm clock), elevator shaft noise (above), jingling (keychain), ringtone (cellphone)


My inferences:

1. Since it takes 7 min to goto the 26th floor from the 3rd floor via the stairs and none of the suspects is not seen on elevator camera prior to the murder and none of them could have anticipated the need to fake the alibi of froth/smoke/steam  ... then either
 A) the culprit is NOT one of the three suspects OR
 B) the culprit is one of the three suspects and the victim fell from the 3rd floor.


2. As for the statements of the individuals, there is something odd about Ogino and Tsukihara's testimony:

Tsukihara says she heard Ogino's alarm go off before leaving.  When asked about why his alarm went off, Ogino said he always wakes up at 07:30 am (setting the alarm clock), but instead, last night he set the alarm to midnight so he can wake up even earlier to watch soccer, and when we see him after 07:34 am soccer is on the TV and beer in front of him.  So it's natural to conclude that he has been awake from midnight to 07:30 am watching soccer and having an occasional beer.  So, Ogino says his alarm DID go off but subtly implies it actually DID NOT go off at 07:30 as Tsukihara claims it did (since he is watching soccer all night there is no reason to set his alarm at 07:30).

As for Conan's hint from Takagi (about being up all night and no sleep) and Kogoro ("What's up with all the fuss!! In the era of poor students, it was a common technique..."), I believe Conan is referencing this incongruity, and what Kogoro means is something along the lines of ... 'when you were poor (without an alarm clock) you would rely on someone else to wake you up' and in this context, it means Tsukihara relying on Ogino's 'reliable' alarm clock in her testimony.  As to why Tsukihara would slip up and lie, you may draw the conclusion that she either headed down the stairs before hearing alarm clock went off or maybe even that she wasn't on the third floor at all.  However, given the steam from the coffee and the hint from Okiya, it seems Tsukihara WAS in her apartment shortly before the victim fell.

3.  Based on the timeline, if Tsukihara (or for that matter one of the other two) is the culprit:

Then the email likely wasn't sent BY the victim at all, since that message is not what enticed the killer to come up.

Instead the email was sent by the culprit in order to provide an alibi to hide when the victim was assaulted.
The victim's phone was on his body, and the email was listed as being sent from the same phone, so the phone was with the victim before he fell.

The culprit had to send the email from the victim's phone ( as is suggested by the evidence and since it was found on the body ), and so the culprit was with the victim at least until the point where the email was sent (07:25 am).  Likely the victim was assaulted some time prior to this.

The culprit met the victim at the 26th floor.  If the culprit assaulted him, sent the e-mail (07:25 am) then pushed him out the window on the 26th floor (07:30 am), then it would have taken him again too long to go down the stairs from the 26th floor to to arrive at the scene before Conan resends the email.  Since the culprit was with him 5 minutes prior to falling out the window, it doesn't matter if he uses a trick to delay the time the victim falls from the building, because he still (barely) does not have enough time to rush down in time.  If the culprit assaults the victim on the 26th floor, its not practical to bring the body down 23 flights of stairs, and we know the elevator was not used (from Takagi) since it has a camera.

So the only scenario left is:

For the culprit to meet with the victim prior to 07:25, lure the victim to her own apartment on the third floor without being seen, meanwhile making sure the elevator is inoperable so they have both have to use the stairs, then assaulting the victim, cleaning up any evidence, sending the email message, then maybe have have coffee? to kill the time it would take to make it seem the culprit visited the victim in response from the email, then pushing the victim out their own apartment window while again not being seen, then heading down stairs after the scream in order to have an alibi.

4. Overall, it seems Tsukihara lying makes her the prime suspect and likely the culprit.

In summary: I suspect Tsukihara lured the victim from his apartment to her apartment via the stairs without being seen, cleaned up, sent the email, drank some of the coffee, pushed the victim out of her window, and then ran out of the apartment so she could be one of the first ones to the scene.

Against this: there is a lot of extraneous and specific information provided (times & places with testimony from the suspects and Conan) ... most is irrelevant to the above conclusion and none of it seem to indicate a motive for the murder or why Tsukihara slipped up in her testimony. (A more plausible reason for her lying is that she was not actually on the 3rd floor at to hear Ogino's alarm clock all when the victim fell and was instead on the 26th ... but that still yields several more problems and more far-fetched solutions).  Tsukihara seems the culprit because of her lie, yet there is no incontrovertible evidence suggesting it was her or that there isn't an unknown fourth suspect that performed the murder.

[sonoci]

hmm i just realized it seem conan is force to use shinichi voice again. no agasa, kogoro, and sonoko

But with Takagi, Conan just have to point out the clue.

^this

I always wonder about the cases that have Conan not using his watch. It always makes me feel there's going to be something happening after the case is solved.

[Abeizzle]

maybe the promis that he mentioned is the promis between dai and sherry

[rrizqiw]

hmm i just realized it seem conan is force to use shinichi voice again. no agasa, kogoro, and sonoko

But with Takagi, Conan just have to point out the clue.

suspicious increased by 100

(thought you need 9001 for them to discover his identity )

[User 4869]

You mean, over nine thousand points?