[spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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jimmy_kud0_tv2

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by jimmy_kud0_tv2 »

jahithber wrote:
Something to consider is that, Scotch is known to be a member of Japanese Secret Police (JSP), and Amuro also seems to be one. We know that Amuro was raised inside the BO as a child, and he obviously couldn't join the JSP at the young age.
This is not an established fact. We do not know that Amuro was raised inside the BO at all. We have no way of confirming if Elena was in the organization yet at the time that they talked in the flashback.


Wouldn't it be far more likely that when she went far away as mentioned, that she was leaving to join the organization? Then Furuya Rei chased after her after not hearing from her and joined the Japanese Police Force (where he met Wataru Date) and then the Special Police (where he met the person currently known as Scotch) in search of her, then he somehow finds out about the organization and enters it as Amuro Touru along with Scotch? Then while in the organization Scotch gets found out and is killed probably by Shuuichi and in front of Amuro (explaining why Amuro also has blood on him), most likely they were also being watched by another person and Shuuichi had no other choice but to kill Scotch or potentially being found out that he is an undercover agent as well. Shuuichi would regret his decision, but probably made it because he had no other option. However, this second paragraph is just a theory.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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sherryx

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by sherryx »

Sorry jahithber, I think you're just seeing connections that don't exist.
jahithber wrote:Something to consider is that, Scotch is known to be a member of Japanese Secret Police (JSP), and Amuro also seems to be one.
We know that Amuro was raised inside the BO as a child, and he obviously couldn't join the JSP at the young age.
It's been said before that it is not confirmed that Amuro was raised in the BO.
jahithber wrote:1. Why was he raised inside the BO and who is his parent(s)/guardian? Presumably whoever takes care of him is also inside the BO, either as an undercover or as a true member.
He may not be raised inside the BO. Who knows, maybe Elena is just a family friend of the Furuyas that happened to take care of Amuro occasionally, and they completely do not know about the BO's existence. This is possible because Agasa also knew Shiho's parents.
jahithber wrote:2. But why did he specifically join the JSP when he grew up and why he works as an BO undercover? He must have some grudge against the BO, and the source of the grudge is likely the death of Scotch.
I'm not sure, but I think that to join any top secret governmental organisations, you would have to be a citizen of the country. Hence if Amuro was born in Japan, he can join the JSP but not the FBI. It's not a choice. He didn't "specifically" target the JSP to join.

Also, Amuro doesn't need a grudge to go against the BO. That's like saying I wouldn't join an organisation to stop human trafficking operations just because I've never been personally affected by it to my knowledge. It could simply be a matter of conscience. Please be careful when using words like 'must'.
jahithber wrote:Base on some facts, we can guess a few things:
Amuro's parent/guardian is not a member of BO because Amuro himself wants the BO gone. And this of course means the opposite, that his parent/guardian is an undercover.
What if Amuro hates his parent/guardian? Then he could want both the BO and his parent/guardian gone, which in turn suggests that his parent/guardian is a real member. Also you are assuming that Amuro's parent/guardian is in the BO in the first place, which I disputed earlier using the Agasa example.
jahithber wrote:Amuro joins the JSP and become an undercover in the BO because of Scotch. And this naturally implies that Scotch was his parent/guardian when he was young.
No evidence for this, as mentioned above. Even assuming that he was undercover in the BO because of Scotch, can't Scotch just be his childhood friend or someone he respects? There is no "natural implication" that Scotch was Amuro's parent/guardian.
jahithber wrote:As for your comments on the relationship between Shuichi and Amuro, Shuichi and Sera might not have grown up with the father, and were raised separately by the mother. Amuro on the other hand was raised by his father inside the BO, while the father was working in the BO as an undercover.

That would explain why Shuichi was sad about the father's death, but not as sad as Amuro, because Shuichi was not close to the father unlike Amuro, who was raised by the father.
Extremely and unnecessarily convoluted. Why would the middle child, of all people, be the one that was raised separately? Why raise your child in the BO at all if they could be raised outside of it? If the father was undercover alone in the BO with a child, why wouldn't the BO go and find out about the mother and in turn about the other children? She is a possible danger to the BO if she happens to know any sensitive information.

You're twisting facts to suit theories, not theories to suit facts.
jahithber wrote:Kid, which comes from the Kaito family, so he cannot be the middle brother.
Spoiler:
Kid is from the Kuroba family. Kaito is his given name.
jahithber wrote:Shukichi, who is known to the public, thus will not fit Sera's description of the middle brother, who is supposed to be in a covet mission.
If I remember correctly, Sera says her brother claims to be on an important job, not necessarily covert. She also doesn't seem to know where he is. Shuukichi is known to the public, yes, but as a shogi prodigy. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that shogi isn't very popular as compared to, say, J-pop idols or sports stars, which could explain why Sera can't find him.

---
Your argument for Amuro's characteristics can be applied to many other characters in Detective Conan, especially Shuukichi. So you're right in saying that none (except 1, explained later) can disprove your theory, but they can't prove your theory either. I could easily use these characteristics to explain why Takagi could be the middle brother and it would still make sense.

Case in point:
jahithber wrote:He is apparently in the middle of an important job and won't tell Masumi where he is.[1]
He is an undercover inside the BO, so he cannot tell Sera where he is or what he's doing.
Shuukichi is a bit weird, I wouldn't put it past him to think that getting all 7 shogi titles for Yumi is an 'important job'. If so, he wouldn't want to be distracted from his goal by his little sister.

Say my theory is that Takagi is the middle brother. He joined the police force as he thinks it will give him the most opportunity to investigate the BO. That would also constitute an 'important job' and he wouldn't tell Sera where he is because what he's doing could possibly put her in danger. See? It's not hard to make someone fit the characteristics at all because they're pretty vague.
jahithber wrote:In one panel, we see the middle brother responding to Masumi's message using his right hand and a black cellphone. Unless the brother is disguised, this would imply he has light skin. The use of the phone with the right hand is not an absolute indicator of handedness because sometimes characters with known handedness will use phones with their off hands.[3]
Amuro is often in disguise as we see him as Scarred Akai. So this cannot disproof the theory.
Correction: Amuro is in disguise when he needs to be. There's no point to putting on an elaborate disguise just to lounge around at home. It's established that Amuro uses the Scar Akai disguise to see Jodie's and Sera's reactions to confirm Akai Shuuichi's death. He had all the confirmation he needed during the Mystery Train after Vermouth tested Sera's reaction (file 822). After that, he would have had no reason to use that disguise again.

The middle brother responding to Sera's message occurs around file 860, when he would no longer use the disguise. Hence this does disprove the theory.
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Elixir

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by Elixir »

jahithber wrote:We know that Amuro was raised inside the BO as a child, and he obviously couldn't join the JSP at the young age.
I didn't know that. Care to point the chapter and page number where it was said? As far as I know, Rei met Elena when he was young. Though it may imply that Rei was BO kid since he met "Elena" when he was young, it doesn't automatically mean that it is indeed true . It is also possible that he met this Elena before she became a member, thus the quote:
Elena wrote:The next time you get hurt, I won't be able to treat you, since I am going to a faraway place.
or she's already a member that time, but Rei only met her as a neighbor or acquaintance.

If we consider that Amuro was indeed a BO kid, and he joined the JSP. The BO would know that he is a secret police if he is raised by the BO, thus they would ask him about the identity of Scotch, which they never knew.
jahithber wrote:Amuro's parent/guardian is not a member of BO because Amuro himself wants the BO gone.
Valid argument, however Haibara's parents are BO members but she's against the BO.
jahithber wrote: And this of course means the opposite, that his parent/guardian is an undercover.
.
Not necessarily. But seeing the analogy with Haibara's case, I could see your point.
If Rei's parents are BO members, and they were killed, that would explain his change of sides.
If one of Rei's parent is an undercover agent, why would the parent bring his young innocent son inside the BO knowing that the job is dangerous? You could argue the Hondou's case but Hidemi was already a CIA agent that time. Same reason as why Eisuke wasn't involved.
jahithber wrote:Amuro joins the JSP and become an undercover in the BO because of Scotch. And this naturally implies that Scotch was his parent/guardian when he was young.
It doesn't naturally imply that Scotch is Rei's parent/guardian if you based your arguments from guesses, not from manga-based facts. Scotch could be random JSP who is Rei's best friend or brother.
jahithber wrote:As for your comments on the relationship between Shuichi and Amuro, Shuichi and Sera might not have grown up with the father, and were raised separately by the mother.
Yeah, valid argument but not conclusive. I could also say that Mr. Akai was long dead when they were young. Still valid, but not conclusive.
jahithber wrote: Amuro on the other hand was raised by his father inside the BO, while the father was working in the BO as an undercover. That would explain why Shuichi was sad about the father's death, but not as sad as Amuro, because Shuichi was not close to the father unlike Amuro, who was raised by the father.
Shiromi already pointed out and even gave the copy of the page wherein it was specifically said that:
Akai wrote:About him, I regret what happened even now.
and
Akai wrote:It would seem his grudge against me is more deeply rooted than I had thought.
How could Akai be so heartless that even if he isn't close to his "dad", he did not have a clue that he took part in his supposedly father's demise, that Amuro took so bad. Are you saying that Akai didn't know Scotch is his father?
jahithber wrote:This leaves Amuro, who fits all the descriptions of the middle brother.
While I think that Rei is a good candidate for Akai middle brother, the manga-based facts suggest against it.
Amuro's age: 29
Akai's alter ego: "27" or see jimmy_kudo_tv2's approximate
Sera': 17
Well, you could say that Akai can be older than 29 if he does not have a standard profile as Akai Shuuichi.

Middle brother's right hand is not tanned like Amuro.
Kor wrote:There is no reason for Gosho to intentionally misdirect us to that extent (especially when Amuro stopped using the Scar Akai costume after the events of Mystery Train). While this series is notorious at this point for all of the disguises, we can't be expected to think that middle brother is wearing a disguise while texting his phone.
Amuro disguises for a reason, investigating Akai's fake death. Tell us, why do he have to disguise his hands?

Rei was surprised that Akai worked out his identity. It doesn't make sense if they were brothers, don't you think?

Amuro's phone is white iPhone. Middle brother has dark Xperia looking phone. You could say that Amuro has a second phone, but it looks suspicious if someone like Vermouth sees that Amuro use a different phone.

And other circumstantial evidence..
Why would he appear as Scar Akai to Sera if he can approach her as the middle brother and ask her about their older brother's death.
Kor wrote:Heck, why did he even appear as Scar Akai in front of Sera, instead of just calling his sister and ask if she knows if Akai is dead, or something like that? (file 801)
I didn't see ^this comment when I made mine.

Why would a brother with the same agenda as the other, hate/want him dead?

The middle brother seems to know the connection between Conan and Shinichi as implied in Chapter 861. Wherein Amuro hasn't yet connected Conan's relationship with the Kudo in Chapter 895.
jabithbar wrote:Amuro already knows Conan is a good detective, and suspect him to be Shuichi, you mean Shinichi right? (He even paid a visit to his house in the delivery truck case
He wasn't visiting the house in the delivery truck case, he extrapolated the location of the van based from the clues in the receipt, he even simulated the track of the receipt before that.
jahithbar wrote:The relationship between Sera and Amuro has not been shown yet, but should definitely be there.
Sayla Mass and Amuro Ray, as you said, are couple in Gundam. If you based their relationship in Gundam alone, then why wouldn't you say that Sera and Rei are couple too in DC? SeraxRei pairing FTW! Anyway, definitely is a big word for you to use just from that.

The reason everyone here seems to refute your arguments is that they are based from guesses. Not essentially bad, but it comes to a point wherein it's almost far-fetched and contradictory to some established facts.

EDIT: When I was writing my post, I didn't update the page, hence the repetition of what others already pointed out.
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Shiromi

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by Shiromi »

jahithber wrote:Something to consider is that, Scotch is known to be a member of Japanese Secret Police (JSP), and Amuro also seems to be one.
From that fact, we can guess that they knew eachother, were colleges, and possibly friends. Judging from how Bourbon reacts to mentions of Scotch and his death, they may have been quite close.
jahithber wrote:We know that Amuro was raised inside the BO as a child, and he obviously couldn't join the JSP at the young age.
We don't know that. It's still a guess at this point. We do know that he knew Elena Miyano and as he mentioned on the train, Akemi. If he knew them because he was raised in the organization, or just happened to live in the same neighborhood, is unknown.
jahithber wrote:Base on some facts, we can guess a few things:
Amuro's parent/guardian is not a member of BO because Amuro himself wants the BO gone. And this of course means the opposite, that his parent/guardian is an undercover.
&
jahithber wrote:This poses a few questions:

1. Why was he raised inside the BO and who is his parent(s)/guardian? Presumably whoever takes care of him is also inside the BO, either as an undercover or as a true member.
If he was raised in the BO, he probably was under the care of a member of it somehow. I doubt they go around kidnapping random children hoping that the random kids will have some amazing skill they could use. However, I highly doubt that whoever was his guardian would be an undercover agent. All of the undercover agents have kept their non-espionage families and friends far from their work. It's like begging to be blackmailed. The BO would have something to use against them to force them into compliance.
jahithber wrote:2. But why did he specifically join the JSP when he grew up and why he works as an BO undercover? He must have some grudge against the BO, and the source of the grudge is likely the death of Scotch.
Not necessarily. It could just be his job. He might not have known that Elena was in the BO until after he infiltrated.
Or, he could have gone looking for her, and found the case that way.
Or, if he already was a member of the BO, having been raised inside it, his time in the police hanging out with Date could have made him see the world in a new way, challenging his beliefs, and deconverting him from the BO's ideology. That would explain why he was so close to Date, and why he was visiting Date's grave. Then he could have joined the JSP to have a way to fight the BO better.
jahithber wrote:Amuro joins the JSP and become an undercover in the BO because of Scotch. And this naturally implies that Scotch was his parent/guardian when he was young.
First sentence: Yes, that could possibly be true. But, Scotch could be someone he met while working the BO case too. We don't know how or when they met, or even how deep their relationship got.

Second sentence: No, it doesn't "naturally imply" that. You can be convinced to join an organization by someone who is not a family member. You can be convinced to join an organization by someone you don't know at all, in fact.
jahithber wrote:As for your comments on the relationship between Shuichi and Amuro, Shuichi and Sera might not have grown up with the father, and were raised separately by the mother. Amuro on the other hand was raised by his father inside the BO, while the father was working in the BO as an undercover.
I believe that Sera mentioned that her father is dead. Though, it is entirely possible that she was just told that her father is dead. But, that the father was raising Amuro inside the BO while undercover, sounds implausible for the reasons I've already mentioned.
jahithber wrote:That would explain why Shuichi was sad about the father's death, but not as sad as Amuro, because Shuichi was not close to the father unlike Amuro, who was raised by the father.
He'd still be more upset about it, and he'd at least understand why Bourbon is so upset. If there was such a bond between Scotch and Bourbon, then Akai doesn't seem to know what it is.
jahithber wrote:On the other hand, so far not many people know about Conan's deduction prowess. A few I can list are:
Shuichi(Okiya), who is of course the bigger brother, and Sera, who is the little sister.
Agasa, Haibara and Conan's parents, who do not match the middle brother's age or gender, and don't have a reason to hide from him.
Jodie, Takagi, Sato, who I do not believe to be the middle brother based on the story so far.
Kid, which comes from the Kaito family, so he cannot be the middle brother.
Heiji, who is from the Hattori family, so he cannot be the middle brother.
Vermouth, who cannot be the brother due to her gender
Eisuke, who comes from the Hondou family, so he cannot be the middle brother.
Shukichi, who is known to the public, thus will not fit Sera's description of the middle brother, who is supposed to be in a covet mission.
Then a few dead people like Akemi, and a few movie only characters, which are not canon.

This leaves Amuro, who fits all the descriptions of the middle brother.
There may be other people who know Conan's skill, but who Conan isn't aware of. Any of those people could have let slip that Conan is an oddly intelligent child. Also, there are a few criminals who've noticed Conan's intelligence. Even if he matches the description of the middle brother, that doesn't make his behavior go away, and he doesn't act as though he has any sort of personal connection to Akai (beyond hatred) or Sera.
jahithber wrote:
He is apparently in the middle of an important job and won't tell Masumi where he is.[1]
He is an undercover inside the BO, so he cannot tell Sera where he is or what he's doing.
So, why'd he test Sera's reaction to see if she knew if Akai was still alive? Why, if he is her older brother and in contact with her, has her trust, and presumably holds some sort of affection for her, would he appear before her disguised as their supposedly dead older brother to see if she would react like he was dead? That is really cruel, and he could just ask her.

jahithber wrote:
In one panel, we see the middle brother responding to Masumi's message using his right hand and a black cellphone. Unless the brother is disguised, this would imply he has light skin. The use of the phone with the right hand is not an absolute indicator of handedness because sometimes characters with known handedness will use phones with their off hands.[3]
Amuro is often in disguise as we see him as Scarred Akai. So this cannot disproof the theory.
That's not all though, to me the hand looks chubby. That could mean that the hand is the side of a child's, or belongs to someone with stubby fingers, or someone who is fat. Akai's hands only match in their skin color. So... I don't think that this could be Bourbon in his Akai costume.
jahithber wrote:
The middle brother recognizes Conan and knows he is a good detective.[3] After an exchange of information regarding deductions, the brother asked Masumi who she was referring to. Masumi shows the brother Conan's picture thinking he will be surprised. The brother replies back that "if it's him, then there's no problem". Masumi is very surprised and wonders how her brother knows Conan. Her suspicion makes sense because Conan didn't exist prior to Shinichi shrinking.[4] The brother later sends another text to Masumi, which makes Masumi react "Ah, I see. So that's how it is."[5]
Amuro already knows Conan is a good detective, and suspect him to be Shuichi (He even paid a visit to his house in the delivery truck case).
It doesn't appear that he's figured out the connection between the Kudous and Conan yet. If he has any guesses about Conan and Shinichi, he hasn't made any sign that he has them. The truck was infront of their house when it was stopped, but I don't remember him going to the Kudou's house until recently, when he was trying to prove his Okiya Subaru = Akai theory. At that point he said he didn't know what the connection between Conan and the Kudous was.
jahithber wrote:And in addition, Gosho also gave a hint here. Shuichi's name comes from Char Aznable. Sera's name comes from Sayla Mass. And lastly Amuro's name of course comes from Amuro Ray. Char's little sister is Sayla. And Sayla and Amuro are a couple. And Char and Amuro are rivals and very close friends. These three people hint that Shuichi, Sera, Amuo are also connected somehow. The relationships between Shuichi and Amuro, and Shuichi and Sera have already been revealed. The relationship between Sera and Amuro has not been shown yet, but should definitely be there.
But the characters of DC aren't so closely tied to Gundam characters that we can predict everything about them from their roles in the Gundam stories.
My DC Fanfic: Awaking and Arising - Shiromi writes her version of the end of the series. With 100% more lesbians and immortal zombie boys. And existential crises. Lots of them.
Kogorou - A character study that seeks to answer the question: Why is Kogorou the way he is?
A Kindred Spirit - Sonoko and Makoto realize that they have more in common than previously realized.
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Betareading this fanfic: Deception
jahithber

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by jahithber »

sherryx wrote:Sorry jahithber, I think you're just seeing connections that don't exist.
jahithber wrote:Something to consider is that, Scotch is known to be a member of Japanese Secret Police (JSP), and Amuro also seems to be one.
We know that Amuro was raised inside the BO as a child, and he obviously couldn't join the JSP at the young age.
It's been said before that it is not confirmed that Amuro was raised in the BO.
I'm pretty sure Elena was in the BO at the time she treated Amuro, or at least work in the APTX project if not directly involved in the BO. She got married 30 years prior to the story. Her husband joined her to conduct research on APTX.
jahithber wrote:1. Why was he raised inside the BO and who is his parent(s)/guardian? Presumably whoever takes care of him is also inside the BO, either as an undercover or as a true member.
He may not be raised inside the BO. Who knows, maybe Elena is just a family friend of the Furuyas that happened to take care of Amuro occasionally, and they completely do not know about the BO's existence. This is possible because Agasa also knew Shiho's parents.
Agasa only met them in science conferences. So it wouldn't consider Agasa to have a connection with them on a personal level. However Amuro is being treated by Elena. And based on the conversation they had, it is not just only once, but quite often. This means Amuro is very close to Elena. But her being involved with the BO means anyone close to her would be in danger of being stalked by the BO, unless, of course that person is already known to the BO.
jahithber wrote:2. But why did he specifically join the JSP when he grew up and why he works as an BO undercover? He must have some grudge against the BO, and the source of the grudge is likely the death of Scotch.
I'm not sure, but I think that to join any top secret governmental organisations, you would have to be a citizen of the country. Hence if Amuro was born in Japan, he can join the JSP but not the FBI. It's not a choice. He didn't "specifically" target the JSP to join.

Also, Amuro doesn't need a grudge to go against the BO. That's like saying I wouldn't join an organisation to stop human trafficking operations just because I've never been personally affected by it to my knowledge. It could simply be a matter of conscience. Please be careful when using words like 'must'.
Shuichi is Japanese but he joined FBI. Amuro could have done the same too, but he chose to join the JSP. On a side note, coincidence rarely happens in fictions, especially in a detective story. When I said must, I really meant very likely. It's like saying if something looks delicious, it must be delicious(or not, but the word must here means very likely).
jahithber wrote:Base on some facts, we can guess a few things:
Amuro's parent/guardian is not a member of BO because Amuro himself wants the BO gone. And this of course means the opposite, that his parent/guardian is an undercover.
What if Amuro hates his parent/guardian? Then he could want both the BO and his parent/guardian gone, which in turn suggests that his parent/guardian is a real member. Also you are assuming that Amuro's parent/guardian is in the BO in the first place, which I disputed earlier using the Agasa example.
That could be another theory, that Amuro hates his parents so he joined JSP to work undercover in the BO. As for Agasa's example, see above.
jahithber wrote:Amuro joins the JSP and become an undercover in the BO because of Scotch. And this naturally implies that Scotch was his parent/guardian when he was young.
No evidence for this, as mentioned above. Even assuming that he was undercover in the BO because of Scotch, can't Scotch just be his childhood friend or someone he respects? There is no "natural implication" that Scotch was Amuro's parent/guardian.
Well like I said it's a guess.
jahithber wrote:As for your comments on the relationship between Shuichi and Amuro, Shuichi and Sera might not have grown up with the father, and were raised separately by the mother. Amuro on the other hand was raised by his father inside the BO, while the father was working in the BO as an undercover.

That would explain why Shuichi was sad about the father's death, but not as sad as Amuro, because Shuichi was not close to the father unlike Amuro, who was raised by the father.
Extremely and unnecessarily convoluted. Why would the middle child, of all people, be the one that was raised separately? Why raise your child in the BO at all if they could be raised outside of it? If the father was undercover alone in the BO with a child, why wouldn't the BO go and find out about the mother and in turn about the other children? She is a possible danger to the BO if she happens to know any sensitive information.
I'm guess they did find the mother, aka why she's a child now, after consuming APTX. That also explains why they have to change their names. Sera mentioned that she had to change her name because of the death of her father. Why would someone do that? Isn't it more appropriate to retain the name in memory of a deceased father? Unless she cannot be found out to be the father's child.

You're twisting facts to suit theories, not theories to suit facts.
Not sure which facts I twisted. If I misrepresent a fact, you should point it out.
jahithber wrote:Kid, which comes from the Kaito family, so he cannot be the middle brother.
Spoiler:
Kid is from the Kuroba family. Kaito is his given name.
jahithber wrote:Shukichi, who is known to the public, thus will not fit Sera's description of the middle brother, who is supposed to be in a covet mission.
If I remember correctly, Sera says her brother claims to be on an important job, not necessarily covert. She also doesn't seem to know where he is. Shuukichi is known to the public, yes, but as a shogi prodigy. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that shogi isn't very popular as compared to, say, J-pop idols or sports stars, which could explain why Sera can't find him.
She claims that he has an important job, and he couldn't tell her what(aka covet). Shogi is actually quite popular among intellectuals in Japan, comparable to Chess in western world. Even the detective boys know about it. Yumi seems to be the only person in the dark.

---
Your argument for Amuro's characteristics can be applied to many other characters in Detective Conan, especially Shuukichi. So you're right in saying that none (except 1, explained later) can disprove your theory, but they can't prove your theory either. I could easily use these characteristics to explain why Takagi could be the middle brother and it would still make sense.
If I could prove my theory it would become a fact. But since I cannot, it is still a theory :P

Case in point:
jahithber wrote:He is apparently in the middle of an important job and won't tell Masumi where he is.[1]
He is an undercover inside the BO, so he cannot tell Sera where he is or what he's doing.
Shuukichi is a bit weird, I wouldn't put it past him to think that getting all 7 shogi titles for Yumi is an 'important job'. If so, he wouldn't want to be distracted from his goal by his little sister.

Say my theory is that Takagi is the middle brother. He joined the police force as he thinks it will give him the most opportunity to investigate the BO. That would also constitute an 'important job' and he wouldn't tell Sera where he is because what he's doing could possibly put her in danger. See? It's not hard to make someone fit the characteristics at all because they're pretty vague.
He is not intellectual and depends on Conan a number of times to save his own life. This alone disprove that theory.
jahithber wrote:In one panel, we see the middle brother responding to Masumi's message using his right hand and a black cellphone. Unless the brother is disguised, this would imply he has light skin. The use of the phone with the right hand is not an absolute indicator of handedness because sometimes characters with known handedness will use phones with their off hands.[3]
Amuro is often in disguise as we see him as Scarred Akai. So this cannot disproof the theory.
Correction: Amuro is in disguise when he needs to be. There's no point to putting on an elaborate disguise just to lounge around at home. It's established that Amuro uses the Scar Akai disguise to see Jodie's and Sera's reactions to confirm Akai Shuuichi's death. He had all the confirmation he needed during the Mystery Train after Vermouth tested Sera's reaction (file 822). After that, he would have had no reason to use that disguise again.

The middle brother responding to Sera's message occurs around file 860, when he would no longer use the disguise. Hence this does disprove the theory.
Scarred Akai is only one of the disguises. He being a detective for the BO would require him to be careful about his presence. Under constant disguise is not an impossibility. Plus we do not know if he was at home when he received Sera's text message. So this does not disprove anything.
jahithber

Posts:
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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by jahithber »

Elixir wrote:
jahithber wrote:We know that Amuro was raised inside the BO as a child, and he obviously couldn't join the JSP at the young age.
I didn't know that. Care to point the chapter and page number where it was said? As far as I know, Rei met Elena when he was young. Though it may imply that Rei was BO kid since he met "Elena" when he was young, it doesn't automatically mean that it is indeed true . It is also possible that he met this Elena before she became a member, thus the quote:
See above
Elena wrote:The next time you get hurt, I won't be able to treat you, since I am going to a faraway place.
or she's already a member that time, but Rei only met her as a neighbor or acquaintance.

If we consider that Amuro was indeed a BO kid, and he joined the JSP. The BO would know that he is a secret police if he is raised by the BO, thus they would ask him about the identity of Scotch, which they never knew.
jahithber wrote:Amuro's parent/guardian is not a member of BO because Amuro himself wants the BO gone.
Valid argument, however Haibara's parents are BO members but she's against the BO.
But we also know Haibara's sister is killed by the BO. I wouldn't say she is actively against the BO, but rather trying to avoid it. She never personally investigated the BO. She even constantly reminds Conan to not get too involved in the BO.
jahithber wrote: And this of course means the opposite, that his parent/guardian is an undercover.
.
Not necessarily. But seeing the analogy with Haibara's case, I could see your point.
If Rei's parents are BO members, and they were killed, that would explain his change of sides.
If one of Rei's parent is an undercover agent, why would the parent bring his young innocent son inside the BO knowing that the job is dangerous? You could argue the Hondou's case but Hidemi was already a CIA agent that time. Same reason as why Eisuke wasn't involved.
Maybe not as inside as Shiho (She is technically raised by the BO), but rather around the BO. Sadly sometimes sacrifice had to be made. Jodie is an example of this.
jahithber wrote:Amuro joins the JSP and become an undercover in the BO because of Scotch. And this naturally implies that Scotch was his parent/guardian when he was young.
It doesn't naturally imply that Scotch is Rei's parent/guardian if you based your arguments from guesses, not from manga-based facts. Scotch could be random JSP who is Rei's best friend or brother.
This is my guess
jahithber wrote:As for your comments on the relationship between Shuichi and Amuro, Shuichi and Sera might not have grown up with the father, and were raised separately by the mother.
Yeah, valid argument but not conclusive. I could also say that Mr. Akai was long dead when they were young. Still valid, but not conclusive.
Another thing to observe is that, Sera mentioned she had to change her name when her father died, but why?
jahithber wrote: Amuro on the other hand was raised by his father inside the BO, while the father was working in the BO as an undercover. That would explain why Shuichi was sad about the father's death, but not as sad as Amuro, because Shuichi was not close to the father unlike Amuro, who was raised by the father.
Shiromi already pointed out and even gave the copy of the page wherein it was specifically said that:
Akai wrote:About him, I regret what happened even now.
and
Akai wrote:It would seem his grudge against me is more deeply rooted than I had thought.
How could Akai be so heartless that even if he isn't close to his "dad", he did not have a clue that he took part in his supposedly father's demise, that Amuro took so bad. Are you saying that Akai didn't know Scotch is his father?
I wouldn't say he is heartless. He is just a person that doesn't show emotions. He did express sadness and regret when he mentioned Scotch.
jahithber wrote:This leaves Amuro, who fits all the descriptions of the middle brother.
While I think that Rei is a good candidate for Akai middle brother, the manga-based facts suggest against it.
Amuro's age: 29
Akai's alter ego: "27" or see jimmy_kudo_tv2's approximate
Sera': 17
Well, you could say that Akai can be older than 29 if he does not have a standard profile as Akai Shuuichi.
Shuichi cannot be 27. see quote from wiki
The middle brother is older than Masumi, but younger than Shuichi.[1] Neither of their ages have been revealed, but Masumi attends class with Ran and Shinichi who are 16-17, and Subaru Okiya claims to be 27. The brother's former high school classmates are currently 28 and 29 years old, suggesting that the brother is probably similarly aged. Although if that were the case, then Akai would be older than 27.

Middle brother's right hand is not tanned like Amuro.
Kor wrote:There is no reason for Gosho to intentionally misdirect us to that extent (especially when Amuro stopped using the Scar Akai costume after the events of Mystery Train). While this series is notorious at this point for all of the disguises, we can't be expected to think that middle brother is wearing a disguise while texting his phone.
Amuro disguises for a reason, investigating Akai's fake death. Tell us, why do he have to disguise his hands?
He could be in disguise for another reason. A wild guess could be that he disguised as a police officer to watch Conan or investigate Kogoro

Rei was surprised that Akai worked out his identity. It doesn't make sense if they were brothers, don't you think?
If they were raised separately, then they might not know each other. But I guess then Sera wouldn't know about him either. So this could disprove my theory. Cannot really think of why.

Amuro's phone is white iPhone. Middle brother has dark Xperia looking phone. You could say that Amuro has a second phone, but it looks suspicious if someone like Vermouth sees that Amuro use a different phone.
Conan has a different phone just for Ran right? People that live a double personality tend to have 2 phones.

And other circumstantial evidence..
Why would he appear as Scar Akai to Sera if he can approach her as the middle brother and ask her about their older brother's death.
Kor wrote:Heck, why did he even appear as Scar Akai in front of Sera, instead of just calling his sister and ask if she knows if Akai is dead, or something like that? (file 801)
I didn't see ^this comment when I made mine.

Why would a brother with the same agenda as the other, hate/want him dead?
Well, even if they were not brothers the reason would be quite intriguing. Maybe he's investigating if Shuichi is alive and pretend to be investigating if he's dead?(to put in another word)

The middle brother seems to know the connection between Conan and Shinichi as implied in Chapter 861. Wherein Amuro hasn't yet connected Conan's relationship with the Kudo in Chapter 895.
Not sure where in 895 do you see that.
jabithbar wrote:Amuro already knows Conan is a good detective, and suspect him to be Shuichi, you mean Shinichi right? (He even paid a visit to his house in the delivery truck case
He wasn't visiting the house in the delivery truck case, he extrapolated the location of the van based from the clues in the receipt, he even simulated the track of the receipt before that.

The receipt doesn't say anything about Conan's house. It only said "Corpse" and the license plate. He might be there to investigate Okiya though.
jahithbar wrote:The relationship between Sera and Amuro has not been shown yet, but should definitely be there.
Sayla Mass and Amuro Ray, as you said, are couple in Gundam. If you based their relationship in Gundam alone, then why wouldn't you say that Sera and Rei are couple too in DC? SeraxRei pairing FTW! Anyway, definitely is a big word for you to use just from that.

The reason everyone here seems to refute your arguments is that they are based from guesses. Not essentially bad, but it comes to a point wherein it's almost far-fetched and contradictory to some established facts.

EDIT: When I was writing my post, I didn't update the page, hence the repetition of what others already pointed out.
jahithber

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by jahithber »

Shiromi wrote:
jahithber wrote:Something to consider is that, Scotch is known to be a member of Japanese Secret Police (JSP), and Amuro also seems to be one.
From that fact, we can guess that they knew eachother, were colleges, and possibly friends. Judging from how Bourbon reacts to mentions of Scotch and his death, they may have been quite close.
jahithber wrote:We know that Amuro was raised inside the BO as a child, and he obviously couldn't join the JSP at the young age.
We don't know that. It's still a guess at this point. We do know that he knew Elena Miyano and as he mentioned on the train, Akemi. If he knew them because he was raised in the organization, or just happened to live in the same neighborhood, is unknown.
jahithber wrote:Base on some facts, we can guess a few things:
Amuro's parent/guardian is not a member of BO because Amuro himself wants the BO gone. And this of course means the opposite, that his parent/guardian is an undercover.
&
jahithber wrote:This poses a few questions:

1. Why was he raised inside the BO and who is his parent(s)/guardian? Presumably whoever takes care of him is also inside the BO, either as an undercover or as a true member.
If he was raised in the BO, he probably was under the care of a member of it somehow. I doubt they go around kidnapping random children hoping that the random kids will have some amazing skill they could use. However, I highly doubt that whoever was his guardian would be an undercover agent. All of the undercover agents have kept their non-espionage families and friends far from their work. It's like begging to be blackmailed. The BO would have something to use against them to force them into compliance.
This is not true. The undercover will not be blackmailed unless their cover has been blown. And we've seen many agents so far have someone they are closed killed by the BO. Jodie has her parents. Shuichi has Akemi. Kor has her father. Amuro has Scotch. Leaving someone close outside the reach of the BO doesn't seem to be a concern of these people.
jahithber wrote:2. But why did he specifically join the JSP when he grew up and why he works as an BO undercover? He must have some grudge against the BO, and the source of the grudge is likely the death of Scotch.
Not necessarily. It could just be his job. He might not have known that Elena was in the BO until after he infiltrated.
Or, he could have gone looking for her, and found the case that way.
Or, if he already was a member of the BO, having been raised inside it, his time in the police hanging out with Date could have made him see the world in a new way, challenging his beliefs, and deconverting him from the BO's ideology. That would explain why he was so close to Date, and why he was visiting Date's grave. Then he could have joined the JSP to have a way to fight the BO better.
This could be true. But isn't proven so it's also a theory.
jahithber wrote:Amuro joins the JSP and become an undercover in the BO because of Scotch. And this naturally implies that Scotch was his parent/guardian when he was young.
First sentence: Yes, that could possibly be true. But, Scotch could be someone he met while working the BO case too. We don't know how or when they met, or even how deep their relationship got.

Second sentence: No, it doesn't "naturally imply" that. You can be convinced to join an organization by someone who is not a family member. You can be convinced to join an organization by someone you don't know at all, in fact.
I think you are reading this out of context. He being raised in the BO and having a "undercover friend" is unlikely. It has to mean that his parent/guardian is either killed by the BO or is an undercover (and maybe he just hates his parent like someone said above, but I don't see this likely).
jahithber wrote:As for your comments on the relationship between Shuichi and Amuro, Shuichi and Sera might not have grown up with the father, and were raised separately by the mother. Amuro on the other hand was raised by his father inside the BO, while the father was working in the BO as an undercover.
I believe that Sera mentioned that her father is dead. Though, it is entirely possible that she was just told that her father is dead. But, that the father was raising Amuro inside the BO while undercover, sounds implausible for the reasons I've already mentioned.
jahithber wrote:That would explain why Shuichi was sad about the father's death, but not as sad as Amuro, because Shuichi was not close to the father unlike Amuro, who was raised by the father.
He'd still be more upset about it, and he'd at least understand why Bourbon is so upset. If there was such a bond between Scotch and Bourbon, then Akai doesn't seem to know what it is.
Shuichi is known to not easily show his emotions. And if the theory that they were raised separately, he might not have a strong bond as Amuro would have with Scotch.
jahithber wrote:On the other hand, so far not many people know about Conan's deduction prowess. A few I can list are:
Shuichi(Okiya), who is of course the bigger brother, and Sera, who is the little sister.
Agasa, Haibara and Conan's parents, who do not match the middle brother's age or gender, and don't have a reason to hide from him.
Jodie, Takagi, Sato, who I do not believe to be the middle brother based on the story so far.
Kid, which comes from the Kaito family, so he cannot be the middle brother.
Heiji, who is from the Hattori family, so he cannot be the middle brother.
Vermouth, who cannot be the brother due to her gender
Eisuke, who comes from the Hondou family, so he cannot be the middle brother.
Shukichi, who is known to the public, thus will not fit Sera's description of the middle brother, who is supposed to be in a covet mission.
Then a few dead people like Akemi, and a few movie only characters, which are not canon.

This leaves Amuro, who fits all the descriptions of the middle brother.
There may be other people who know Conan's skill, but who Conan isn't aware of. Any of those people could have let slip that Conan is an oddly intelligent child. Also, there are a few criminals who've noticed Conan's intelligence. Even if he matches the description of the middle brother, that doesn't make his behavior go away, and he doesn't act as though he has any sort of personal connection to Akai (beyond hatred) or Sera.
He wonders why Sera is in Japan, meaning he knows Sera is in the US. This alone shows that he has some connections with Sera. Note that Sera moved to the US after Shuichi's cover was blown.
jahithber wrote:
He is apparently in the middle of an important job and won't tell Masumi where he is.[1]
He is an undercover inside the BO, so he cannot tell Sera where he is or what he's doing.
So, why'd he test Sera's reaction to see if she knew if Akai was still alive? Why, if he is her older brother and in contact with her, has her trust, and presumably holds some sort of affection for her, would he appear before her disguised as their supposedly dead older brother to see if she would react like he was dead? That is really cruel, and he could just ask her.
He doesn't know if Shuichi is dead or not but he suspects Shuichi is still alive, and of course he doesn't want the BO to know. So he had to conduct this whole investigation in secrets.
jahithber wrote:
In one panel, we see the middle brother responding to Masumi's message using his right hand and a black cellphone. Unless the brother is disguised, this would imply he has light skin. The use of the phone with the right hand is not an absolute indicator of handedness because sometimes characters with known handedness will use phones with their off hands.[3]
Amuro is often in disguise as we see him as Scarred Akai. So this cannot disproof the theory.
That's not all though, to me the hand looks chubby. That could mean that the hand is the side of a child's, or belongs to someone with stubby fingers, or someone who is fat. Akai's hands only match in their skin color. So... I don't think that this could be Bourbon in his Akai costume.
I had a guess on this. The shape of the hand might indicate something, but when I looked around other people's hand it doesn't stand out that much.
jahithber wrote:
The middle brother recognizes Conan and knows he is a good detective.[3] After an exchange of information regarding deductions, the brother asked Masumi who she was referring to. Masumi shows the brother Conan's picture thinking he will be surprised. The brother replies back that "if it's him, then there's no problem". Masumi is very surprised and wonders how her brother knows Conan. Her suspicion makes sense because Conan didn't exist prior to Shinichi shrinking.[4] The brother later sends another text to Masumi, which makes Masumi react "Ah, I see. So that's how it is."[5]
Amuro already knows Conan is a good detective, and suspect him to be Shuichi (He even paid a visit to his house in the delivery truck case).
It doesn't appear that he's figured out the connection between the Kudous and Conan yet. If he has any guesses about Conan and Shinichi, he hasn't made any sign that he has them. The truck was infront of their house when it was stopped, but I don't remember him going to the Kudou's house until recently, when he was trying to prove his Okiya Subaru = Akai theory. At that point he said he didn't know what the connection between Conan and the Kudous was.
He said it in a pretentious way. It appears that the real middle brother knows the connection but still wants to hide it. It could be that he intentionally keep it secret for the same reason Conan is keeping it a secret.
jahithber wrote:And in addition, Gosho also gave a hint here. Shuichi's name comes from Char Aznable. Sera's name comes from Sayla Mass. And lastly Amuro's name of course comes from Amuro Ray. Char's little sister is Sayla. And Sayla and Amuro are a couple. And Char and Amuro are rivals and very close friends. These three people hint that Shuichi, Sera, Amuo are also connected somehow. The relationships between Shuichi and Amuro, and Shuichi and Sera have already been revealed. The relationship between Sera and Amuro has not been shown yet, but should definitely be there.
But the characters of DC aren't so closely tied to Gundam characters that we can predict everything about them from their roles in the Gundam stories.
Just a hint, just saying.
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Elixir

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by Elixir »

jahithber wrote:If I could prove my theory it would become a fact. But since I cannot, it is still a theory.
People here are saying that you back your theory from facts, not from guesses. In DC itself, if Conan can't show a hard evidence, all his/Kogoro's ramblings no matter how true, cannot arrest the criminal. Well, I am not forcing you to do the same. People here care enough to check your thoughts.
Jahitber wrote:He being a detective for the BO would require him to be careful about his presence. Under constant disguise is not an impossibility. Plus we do not know if he was at home when he received Sera's text message. So this does not disprove anything.
The uncertainty makes your argument weak. So if I play along your line of thinking, if being a BO detective requires constant disguise, why do the assassins of BO don't have to? Well, I'm just basing my guess from what I observed in the manga.
jahithber wrote:But we also know Haibara's sister is killed by the BO. I wouldn't say she is actively against the BO, but rather trying to avoid it. She never personally investigated the BO. She even constantly reminds Conan to not get too involved in the BO
I didn't say actively against it. Even though they are BO members themselves, they are not totally supporting what they do. Even Vermouth is a member, but she does something that supports the other side, knowing the someday it will be destroyed by that person. I just refute your argument that Amuro wants the BO gone because his parents/guardians are not BO members by showing (manga based example) that it is not always true.
jahitber wrote:Maybe not as inside as Shiho (She is technically raised by the BO), but rather around the BO. Sadly sometimes sacrifice had to be made. Jodie is an example of this.
Why does the parent have to sacrifice the young kid, if he can hide the fact that he has a child? Jodie is not sacrificed. She joined FBI because she wants to.
jahithber wrote:Another thing to observe is that, Sera mentioned she had to change her name when her father died, but why?
Who knows? But as far as I know, Mr, Akai's death is only one of the reason of the name change. If Sera knows the middle brother's name change, she could still be with him at that point. Still thinking that Rei was raised in the BO, separately from them?
jahitber wrote:I wouldn't say he is heartless. He is just a person that doesn't show emotions. He did express sadness and regret when he mentioned Scotch.
He didn't know that Rei's hate against him is deeply rooted than he thought. At least if they were brothers, he knows where Rei is coming from.
jahithber wrote:Shuichi cannot be 27. see quote from wiki
If you can base your arguments from wiki, why not try base them from manga excerpts. It's just an exposition by a wiki contributor. It does not specifically say that Shuuichi cannot be older, but would be, if the estimation depended on the classmates' age.
jahithber wrote:If they were raised separately, then they might not know each other. But I guess then Sera wouldn't know about him either. So this could disprove my theory. Cannot really think of why.
Well, I got a suggestion for you. Cause it's highly possible that they are not brothers?
jahithber wrote:Conan has a different phone just for Ran right? People that live a double personality tend to have 2 phones.
But Conan made it identical so no one (except Haibara or Agasa) would guess he has two phones. I'm calling the same for Amuro.
jahitber wrote:Well, even if they were not brothers the reason would be quite intriguing. Maybe he's investigating if Shuichi is alive and pretend to be investigating if he's dead?(to put in another word)
Rei has a grudge against Akai, and it is deeply rooted than Akai thought. *both of them with blood in clothes as a background*
jahitber wrote:Not sure where in 895 do you see that.
Spoiler:
Image
jahitber wrote:The receipt doesn't say anything about Conan's house. It only said "Corpse" and the license plate. He might be there to investigate Okiya though.
Are you sure that you read and understand the manga? I'm suggesting that you read it again. During the delivery truck case and during the Scarlet Interrogation are two far chapters.
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Shiromi

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by Shiromi »

jahithber wrote:
Shiromi wrote:If he was raised in the BO, he probably was under the care of a member of it somehow. I doubt they go around kidnapping random children hoping that the random kids will have some amazing skill they could use. However, I highly doubt that whoever was his guardian would be an undercover agent. All of the undercover agents have kept their non-espionage families and friends far from their work. It's like begging to be blackmailed. The BO would have something to use against them to force them into compliance.
This is not true. The undercover will not be blackmailed unless their cover has been blown. And we've seen many agents so far have someone they are closed killed by the BO. Jodie has her parents. Shuichi has Akemi. Kor has her father. Amuro has Scotch. Leaving someone close outside the reach of the BO doesn't seem to be a concern of these people.
Well, seeing how Akemi's cover wasn't blown and that she wasn't an undercover agent and she was blackmailed into stealing a million dollars for the release of her little sister... I'd say that you're wrong. They use any means possible to control their people. It'd be foolish to give them a weakness they could exploit.

I think you're arguing that Gousou is making all of the agents have personal reasons to fight against the BO. So, what is Camel's personal loss at the hands of the BO? He's there because it's his job. He's also there to try to make up for his mistake that sunk a sting operation, a mistake that he made while already on the case because it's his job. Also, James Black. So far, we know of no personal wound that the org could have made against him. He appears to be there because of his job. This is also true for the rest of the FBI agents and the JSP agents under Furuya. "It's their job," should be your first assumption in this case, until Goushou shows us a reason to go against it.

Also:
Jodie's grudge is against Vermouth specifically, not the BO. The main reason she's there is because she's a talented FBI agent.
Akai didn't have a personal grudge against the BO when he started working the case. He got involved because it was his job.
Kir (not Kor) was there not out of revenge for her father, but because she's a CIA agent, like her father. The CIA assigned her to the same mission that her father had been a part of.
Bourbon was already undercover in the BO when Scotch's cover was blown and he died. We don't know how far or what their relationship was before he died. Bourbon got involved in the case, as far as we can tell at this point, because it is his job.

Then you suddenly switch your point (you seemed to be making a point about the tropes Goushou likes to use), then you say something off the wall which has little to do with the point you were making. As far as I can tell, these people have all gone to great lengths to keep their work separate from their families. Akai, Kir, and Bourbon took on false names. We don't know if Bourbon has any family, but if he does, he's kept them so far away that they haven't come up in the plot yet. Akai and Kir both dropped contact with their families while undercover, so much so that Eisuke went searching for his sister, thinking that something had happened to her. And when Akai faked his death to give Kir a good name in the BO, he pretended to be dead to his friends and colleges and his own family, cutting ties completely to go undercover as Okiya Subaru. The people who died in all of these cases you listed weren't innocent family members unknowingly swept into the story, they were agents knowingly putting their lives on the line.

jahithber wrote:
Shiromi wrote:
jahithber wrote:2. But why did he specifically join the JSP when he grew up and why he works as an BO undercover? He must have some grudge against the BO, and the source of the grudge is likely the death of Scotch.
Not necessarily. It could just be his job. He might not have known that Elena was in the BO until after he infiltrated.
Or, he could have gone looking for her, and found the case that way.
Or, if he already was a member of the BO, having been raised inside it, his time in the police hanging out with Date could have made him see the world in a new way, challenging his beliefs, and deconverting him from the BO's ideology. That would explain why he was so close to Date, and why he was visiting Date's grave. Then he could have joined the JSP to have a way to fight the BO better.
This could be true. But isn't proven so it's also a theory.
More like a hypothesis at this point. You've got to admit though, it relies on fewer assumptions, guesses, and contrivances than your hypothesis does.

The point I was trying to make was that there are other, more likely explanations for Bourbon being an undercover agent.
jahithber wrote:
Shiromi wrote:
jahithber wrote:Amuro joins the JSP and become an undercover in the BO because of Scotch. And this naturally implies that Scotch was his parent/guardian when he was young.
First sentence: Yes, that could possibly be true. But, Scotch could be someone he met while working the BO case too. We don't know how or when they met, or even how deep their relationship got.

Second sentence: No, it doesn't "naturally imply" that. You can be convinced to join an organization by someone who is not a family member. You can be convinced to join an organization by someone you don't know at all, in fact.
I think you are reading this out of context. He being raised in the BO and having a "undercover friend" is unlikely. It has to mean that his parent/guardian is either killed by the BO or is an undercover (and maybe he just hates his parent like someone said above, but I don't see this likely).
Why is making friends with a JSP agent then being greatly affected by their death unlikely? Explain how this is unlikely please.

Your logic is faulty here. We don't even know if Bourbon was raised in the BO. We don't know how long Scotch and Bourbon knew eachother. We don't know who Scotch was, other than a JSP agent that Akai somehow got killed and Bourbon was close enough to to try to get Akai killed for revenge. If Bourbon was raised in the BO, then we don't know when or why he decided to switch sides, so he could have gotten close to Scotch after he'd already decided to betray the BO. He could have met Scotch while working with the JSP. He could have met Scotch after his mission against the BO had already started. WE DON'T KNOW. Therefore, your guess is even less substantiated.
jahithber wrote:
Shiromi wrote:
jahithber wrote:That would explain why Shuichi was sad about the father's death, but not as sad as Amuro, because Shuichi was not close to the father unlike Amuro, who was raised by the father.
He'd still be more upset about it, and he'd at least understand why Bourbon is so upset. If there was such a bond between Scotch and Bourbon, then Akai doesn't seem to know what it is.
Shuichi is known to not easily show his emotions. And if the theory that they were raised separately, he might not have a strong bond as Amuro would have with Scotch.
Sure, he likes to keep his emotions close to his vest. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have them, or doesn't understand when others have them. He doesn't seem to know how close Bourbon and Scotch were, so misjudged how much Bourbon would want revenge.
jahithber wrote:
Shiromi wrote:There may be other people who know Conan's skill, but who Conan isn't aware of. Any of those people could have let slip that Conan is an oddly intelligent child. Also, there are a few criminals who've noticed Conan's intelligence. Even if he matches the description of the middle brother, that doesn't make his behavior go away, and he doesn't act as though he has any sort of personal connection to Akai (beyond hatred) or Sera.
He wonders why Sera is in Japan, meaning he knows Sera is in the US. This alone shows that he has some connections with Sera. Note that Sera moved to the US after Shuichi's cover was blown.
Not true actually. Sera moved to the US with her mother around 3 years ago, and Akai's cover was blown around 2 years ago.
jahithber wrote:
Shiromi wrote:
jahithber wrote:
He is apparently in the middle of an important job and won't tell Masumi where he is.[1]
He is an undercover inside the BO, so he cannot tell Sera where he is or what he's doing.
So, why'd he test Sera's reaction to see if she knew if Akai was still alive? Why, if he is her older brother and in contact with her, has her trust, and presumably holds some sort of affection for her, would he appear before her disguised as their supposedly dead older brother to see if she would react like he was dead? That is really cruel, and he could just ask her.
He doesn't know if Shuichi is dead or not but he suspects Shuichi is still alive, and of course he doesn't want the BO to know. So he had to conduct this whole investigation in secrets.
You know what's a whole lot more secret than appearing as Akai in the middle of the street and making Sera chase after him? A text, using whatever secret phone he uses to stay in contact with her. He doesn't do that, so he likely can't.
jahithber wrote:
Shiromi wrote:
jahithber wrote:
The middle brother recognizes Conan and knows he is a good detective.[3] After an exchange of information regarding deductions, the brother asked Masumi who she was referring to. Masumi shows the brother Conan's picture thinking he will be surprised. The brother replies back that "if it's him, then there's no problem". Masumi is very surprised and wonders how her brother knows Conan. Her suspicion makes sense because Conan didn't exist prior to Shinichi shrinking.[4] The brother later sends another text to Masumi, which makes Masumi react "Ah, I see. So that's how it is."[5]
Amuro already knows Conan is a good detective, and suspect him to be Shuichi (He even paid a visit to his house in the delivery truck case).
It doesn't appear that he's figured out the connection between the Kudous and Conan yet. If he has any guesses about Conan and Shinichi, he hasn't made any sign that he has them. The truck was infront of their house when it was stopped, but I don't remember him going to the Kudou's house until recently, when he was trying to prove his Okiya Subaru = Akai theory. At that point he said he didn't know what the connection between Conan and the Kudous was.
He said it in a pretentious way. It appears that the real middle brother knows the connection but still wants to hide it. It could be that he intentionally keep it secret for the same reason Conan is keeping it a secret.
The middle brother knows about Conan's intelligence, but doesn't appear to know that Conan is Shinichi. If he does, it hasn't been shown to us yet.
My DC Fanfic: Awaking and Arising - Shiromi writes her version of the end of the series. With 100% more lesbians and immortal zombie boys. And existential crises. Lots of them.
Kogorou - A character study that seeks to answer the question: Why is Kogorou the way he is?
A Kindred Spirit - Sonoko and Makoto realize that they have more in common than previously realized.
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Betareading this fanfic: Deception
jahithber

Posts:
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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by jahithber »

Spoiler:
From file 901 and 902, it appears that the unknown child is interested in Shukichi. Shuichi is also interested in Shukichi. Why would the unknown child be interested? Assuming she's the mother, is Shukichi the brother then? What's more weird, Shuichi is also interested in him. Now there are two possibilities, either he is Rum, or he is the middle brother. If he is the middle brother then my theory about Amuro would be wrong. Anyone notices anything indicating that. So far we know he's smart but he's not a detective. And he doesn't look like the mother. I'm assuming the mother has no idea about Rum, so it also indicates that he's not Rum. Lastly he is trusted by Conan to some degree. Haibara has no BO reaction when near him. But there are also possible contradictions, Sera said she doesn't know her brother's occupation, but the mother is watching Shuikichi playing Shogi on TV along with Sera. So she knows Shukichi's occupation as a Shogi player, at least now (So maybe she learned about it just now?).
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themasq

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by themasq »

Spoiler:
I don't understand why Sera shouldn't know. Shuukichi has absolutely nothing to hide at this point. Both Shuichi and the mother seemed to have been happy about Shuukichi earning all 7 titles. So, what's the point of leaving Sera in the dark?
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PhantomWriter
Rye on Discord

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by PhantomWriter »

themasq wrote:
Spoiler:
I don't understand why Sera shouldn't know. Shuukichi has absolutely nothing to hide at this point. Both Shuichi and the mother seemed to have been happy about Shuukichi earning all 7 titles. So, what's the point of leaving Sera in the dark?
It's possible that she'll be told off-panel by Mini and that the on-panel stuff is to avoid spoiling the audience if they don't piece it together immediately. (Sort of like how, early in the series, Ran was thinking about her own mom as 'that person' instead of 'mom,' so the audience would get the surprise later.)
"Data! Data! Data! I cannot make bricks without clay." -Sherlock Holmes
kentasaiba
Mr. Pickles!

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Re: [spoiler] Akai Family, it all makes sense now.

Post by kentasaiba »

Looks like, Akai took the APTX Image
Image
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