Does Bourbon knows about shrinking/not aging?

[Nemomon]

I wonder... Rei seems to know a lot about Vermouth. If he knows more than the other BO members, including Gin, does he also knows about not-aging?

Since he knows how Vermouth is related to the Boss, he for sure should know that she's older than she looks like.

He seems also knows that Conan is older than he looks like. Conan been remembering that in the Mystery Train Bourbon didn't really want to kill Shiho. So what he really wanted to do there?What was his goal when he revealed his nickname when he really didn't want to kill her, but probably to capture her (and knowing that revealing his own nickname isn't a wise decision to capture a girl).

Don't You think that Bourbon, similarly like Vermouth, is doing deeds that contradict with each other?

[k11chi]

Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he does. There's a chance that Shuiichi, Masumi and Amuro all learned about it in the Bourbon arc or they knew about it beforehand and only confirmed Conan being a shrinken person...

[soul_dreamer]

I would say that Rei knows about non-aging, but without a straight answer of what Vermouth's secret is, there's a possibility that he's not aware of it. However, I will stick with the theory that he knows, for now.

It was said on this forum that Rei's goal during the Mystery Train, was (most likely) to fake Sherry's death.

I'm not sure, if Rei knows about Conan being shrunken. Rei knows that Conan's intelligence is way beyond average as for a first grade, but in my opinion, it would be quite unreasonable to jump into the conclusion that someone shrank without an idea of shrinking being possible. Of course, if Rei knows about non-aging, then believing in possibility of shrinking shouldn't be low.

On the other hand, Conan is way too smart as for his age and Rei should ask himself the question, how Conan has become so smart at such young age. Actually, (almost)everyone should ask themselves this question. However, in my opinion, Rei should have a reason to think that Conan shrank, e.g. Rei knows about non-aging. Well, if Rei doesn't know already about it, then I hope he will and he will find out about Conan being Shinichi, as well.

About your last question, could you give examples? Do you mean Rei wanting to bring Akai to the BO and then giving up on it or something else?

[Nemomon]

Rei for sure knows about Vermouth more than the other BO members. The first question we should ask theselves is from where he knows? He knows that Vermouth is related to the Boss. He as well might know who the Boss really is (but if the Boss is unavailable for now, that knowledge isn't any helpful for him). Could he get that info from his MI6/secret police friends? Also, is Vermouth bothered of how Bourbon found that out? If that isn't public info (and we can risk that it's top secret info), he shouldn't have been aware of that (and perhaps Vermouth herself destroyed all evidence that could connect her with the Boss), unless he has some other informations, and if so, Vermouth should be very suspicious of him. Interesting side question is why nobody else in the BO knows how Vermouth is related to the Boss. I think it shouldn't be a problem in this mafia organization. And it is not that the Boss wants this secret to be hidden, Vermouth herself doesn't want to reveal it. Why?

The Mystery Train case is weird. If Rei wanted to fake Sherry's death, he should've contact her to arrange that. And for sure he shouldn't reveal his BO codename, exactly knowing how Sherry would react after hearing it. He probably had some hard times finding Sherry (without knowing that she's Haibara, and having nobody else to contact to deliver a message to her), but after he found her, he should play that scene dramatically different if he really tried to save her and fake her death. Honestly speaking I have no idea what Rei tried to accomplish in the Mystery Train.

He acted like a very BO member, while being secret police agent trying to capture Sherry for his own comrades (having former BO high member for sure would help taking down the whole BO). Unless he was under surveillance, and he was forced to act that way... but we didn't see Gin spying Bourbon, Vermouth also wasn't around, and since that was a train the Boss would not loot at him (and besides the Boss for sure knew that Gin set up a lot of bombs under railway station, so he would not risk his own life).

Not to mention that the whole Mystery Train case was one big deus ex machina - if Kid would not appear and would not agree to Conan's request, everybody would die.

I think if Rei knows about non-aging (and he rather knows considering that he knows Vermouth other secrets), he might consider Conan being the same human as Vermouth - an adult that cannot age (not that he shrank). Either way (if he shrank, or cannot age) he knows that Conan is actually an adult.

ABout non-aging, we could ask a whole different question - does anybody else besides Jodie (and Akai) knows that Vermouth cannot age? Jodie found out that only because Vermouth killed her father and through that 20+ years didn't change even a single gray hair. If Vermouth would not kill her father, Jodie would not know that. Akai probably knew that even before, but if not, he heard that question from Jodie when she was half killed. So, who else besides Akai, Jodie, and Yukiko knows that? Bourbon? How?

My last question was fully related to the Mystery Train. He acted there - while being alone - not like a police officer trying to save innocent life, but like a brutal BO killer. His top priority should be to capture Sherry, but he didn't do any single move to make this objective coming true. We could ask a question if in the Mystery Train he really was a member of the secret police, maybe not just yet...

tl;dr Too many questions, too little answers.

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

Isn't it also possible that Rei just knew that Akemi and Shuuichi had been dating, and that Akemi's younger sister had run away from the organization? In that case once Rei saw the video of Shiho wearing the mystery train ring he told Vermouth (and Gin) that he had found her and was making a plan to go after her. Okiya/Shuuichi saw the video and went to protect Shiho/Haibara. Sera probably went after seeing the video at the request of the mysterious girl. Rei could have been thinking that if he wounded Shiho, that Shuuichi would reveal himself. When Rei corners the person he thinks is Shiho (Kid), Shuuichi did just that, he revealed himself through the smoke. (This was proof to Rei that Shuuichi was alive and now all he had to do was find out how it was done through details about Rikumichi.) However, Vermouth was acting on her own ideals loaded enough explosives in the back of the train to make sure that Shiho was dead, however if Rei wasn't told this by Kid, the amount of explosives there would have killed or seriously wounded him as well. Its possible that either Rei already knew Vermouth's secret at that point and this was her trying to get rid of him as well OR that she knew who Rei was and wanted him out of the organization.

We don't know at this point when Rei learned what ever he knows about Vermouth, that could only be a recent thing, but we can't be sure. If he has been working with Vermouth all the way back since Kir first mentioned the name Bourbon, its possible that Rei and Vermouth found out things about each other over time since they were in close proximity with each other. However by the shear amount of bombs its possible that one of them knew something by the time of the Mystery train.

[soul_dreamer]

Completely agree with you about Mystery Train case being 'big deux ex machina'. I remember being disappointed by Kid's appearance in that case.

About Amuro's acting in Mystery Train. If he would act as a police officer, then we wouldn't have a plot twist in Scarlet series. Gosho made Amuro acting this way on purpose, so we wouldn't expect him being a spy. Ai knew that Kid (disguised as her in Shiho's form) was meeting with someone from BO, so even if Amuro wouldn't reveal his codename and say that he's from the secret police, then what is the guarantee that Ai would believe him. Of course, Amuro didn't know that Shiho knew that she was going to meet with BO's member, but he still should be aware that Shiho might not believe him. There was also risk of Vermouth finding out. What if all of sudden, she would appear, while Amuro revealing that he's from the secret police and IMO Amuro should take into the consideration that Vermouth could put wiretap on him; I know she didn't, but Amuro should be prepared on every possibility. It's truth that Amuro was acting brutal, but this way, he didn't risk of failing his plan. Basically, there were two risks: Shiho's distrust and Vermouth finding out Amuro being a spy. It was better to use the force, so Shiho could be taken by Amuro's colleagues from the secret police. Amuro, then, would tell Vermouth and rest that Shiho was caught in the explosion or something similar, Shiho falling into a river. Amuro definitely was a member of the secret police during Mystery Train. During his and Akai conversation in 897 file, Akai said that he suspect Amuro while they were in the organization. Amuro could be first BO's member and then switch sides, but if that the case, then it mostly happened, while he was in the police academy; he could consider it before, though.

About Amuro knowing Vermouth's secret and how he find out, not sure. I see two possibilities: Amuro found out with the help of the secret police, maybe with Scotch's help; Amuro found out through Elena, maybe he eavesdropped some conversation. Well, it could be something else.

@jimmy_kud0_tv2: I doubt that Amuro was planning to lure out Akai by hurting Shiho; he still could hoping that Akai would appear, though. However, I agree that Vermouth might plan to kill Amuro, as well, if he knew Vermouth's secret, then killing him on the train was the perfect opportunity. In file 898, Amuro said that if he's not check in, then Vermouth's secret would be revealed and Vermouth responded to that 'you mentioned that', maybe Amuro figured out after Mystery Train that he could be killed, so he has threaten Vermouth.

[cchanged]

Bourbon may or may not know about the aging issue, but if Vermouth's secret is directly related to it, then he probably knows but just has yet to figure out about Conan (or he found out somehow already, since he knew that Conan is related to the fake death plan).

I think Bourbon had already known about Vermouth's secret in the red shirts case, since Vermouth asked him if he remembers his promise with her.

Although there is no evidence that Bourbon was bugged in the mystery train case, it is very likely that he was since during the teacher assault case he was. If he was bugged, then he had to act the way he did. Also, he had no way of knowing whether Vermouth would suddenly pop out behind him to check on him or not, as demonstrated by the fact that he at first thought the silhouette who showed up behind him was Vermouth when it was actually the real Akai. He was persistent that he should be the one to take Shiho too. I think he might also know that Shiho is related to Vermouth's secret, since he said the bombs showed her determination to kill Shiho no matter what.

I don't think Vermouth intended to kill Bourbon at all because she had waited to hear the explosion that detached the last car to activate the bombs, though she didn't know that it was Akai who actually detached the car.

[soul_dreamer]

I think when Amuro was planning for Shiho to be taken by his colleagues from the secret police, then Amuro's aim may not be only to fake her death, but to gather more information on BO. It's truth that Amuro as a part of BO can find information by himself, but he definitely has no access to everything in BO. Shiho, who was in the charge of the research development, could provide valuable information for the secret police, like what the organization working is on. However, it seems that Amuro already find the valuable information - Vermouth's secret.

I know that it wasn't confirmed who Amuro is working for, PSIA, PSB or MI6, but IMO Amuro most likely works for the Japanese. I would prefer him to be part of the Japanese secret police rather than MI6 or other British's security agency. I don't mind Amuro to be partly British, though.

If Amuro is part of the Japanese Secret Police, then they most likely would ask Shiho many questions about BO. Amuro, however, might be willing to help Shiho, because of his relation to Elena.

Lol it would be funny if Amuro would succeed, but he wouldn't 'capture' Shiho but he would catch Kid disguised as Shiho.