My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Kleene Onigiri
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Kleene Onigiri »

Yoko is an idol. If someone meant harm to her, she'd have been harmed right away.
This was a stalking and she could have guessed that it was probably a obsessed fan.

If she would have called vermouth, then vermouth would need to be around her to check things. If she'll be seen together with vermouth, it would give out some strange rumors maybe, people would wonder why yoko knows such a famous actress.
If vermouth would need to avoid direct contact, vermouth would need help from other members. Thus BO members who aren't supposed to know anokatas identity would wonder why they need to help yoko.

Gin knew about Kogoro helping Kir. But as long as Kir didn't request help the BO wouldn't go and help her directly. Especially since it was labeled as a "silly little case". And Kir wanted to get in contact with Kogoro. So she would try to avoid getting the BO involved into that Case.
Probably a reason why she told Yoko about the stalking. Since Yoko knows Kogoro.

I said "all BO based on that" :V
Tho your example for Gin and Vodkas alibis to not be Anokata is strange. Gin and Vodka knowing about the photo would be because they were informed. But doesn't mean anokata was the one that informed them.
So like, if Gin is anokata, he would have gotten the info that Pisco failed and could simply say: "'Anokata' wants you dead"
Vodka wasn't seen after Gin was shot with the stun-gun. He could have mailed Gin to kill Pisco then :x (Just saying it's a possibility here)
dead BO's probably aren't anokata ::)

Back to yoko: Sure, you got arguments against her being Anokata. But they aren't as strong as the other arguments for the other characters. Like for James Black, since he knows about Haibara etc.
That's why I'm not completely convinced that Yoko is for 100% not Anokata :V


also, I'm fast and furious \o/
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Stopwatch »

Kleene Onigiri wrote: If she would have called vermouth, then vermouth would need to be around her to check things. If she'll be seen together with vermouth, it would give out some strange rumors maybe, people would wonder why yoko knows such a famous actress.
If vermouth would need to avoid direct contact, vermouth would need help from other members. Thus BO members who aren't supposed to know anokatas identity would wonder why they need to help yoko.
Vermouth's a disguise artist, if she didn't want to be seen she'd just disguise as someone else.
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Kleene Onigiri
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Kleene Onigiri »

Stopwatch wrote:
Kleene Onigiri wrote: If she would have called vermouth, then vermouth would need to be around her to check things. If she'll be seen together with vermouth, it would give out some strange rumors maybe, people would wonder why yoko knows such a famous actress.
If vermouth would need to avoid direct contact, vermouth would need help from other members. Thus BO members who aren't supposed to know anokatas identity would wonder why they need to help yoko.
Vermouth's a disguise artist, if she didn't want to be seen she'd just disguise as someone else.
As the manager... DUN DUN DUN!
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Nyarl »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Nyarl wrote: Kogoro is still tied directly to the Itakura and Tequila murder investigations, which also involved someone investigating the Org., and the hit men still haven't come back. I suspect someone high in the Org. doesn't really want to kill him unless it's proven to be necessary beyond doubt. Someone besides Vermouth, after the Boss lost some faith and pulled in her leash. Eri is too young to be the boss herself (unless she's a better actor than Haibara and Conan and APTX victims can age like normal children), but I wouldn't be surprised if she or someone else close to Ran's family is Org.
The distinction is that Kogoro is coincidentally involved in Black Org related cases. He has legitimate-upon-examination reasons for being at both places because he was invited/hired to be there by someone (as far as we know) completely unrelated to the Org: the company who made a game based off of Kogoro and Itakura's clients. If you think the Org would still suspect Kogoro being there despite those reasons, why not suspect Megure who was at both cases when other police inspectors could have handled the case? If you look at it that way, Megure has been involved in more Black Org related cases than Kogoro has been and he is a police officer on top of that. Why not go after him?
Although I also suspect the Org boss is related to the Mouri family somehow, other than Vermouth who feels for Conan and Ran, I don't think any upper level Org members, boss included, have any special reason to not target Kogoro if they thought he was suspicious. Other than Gin who suspects after Org vs. FBI, and Vermouth who knows but is keeping it to herself, I don't think Kogoro is on the Org's radar as anyone but a generic good detective to avoid if possible.
Akemi hired Kogoro directly. Apart from the unsurprising investigation into the bank robbery, the police only really became involved when the murders started.

Kogoro was sorta involved in the train incident. The Japanese police weren't involved until the after the bomb plot was foiled.

Kogoro and the police were involved in the Tequila incident. Gin almost certainly doesn't know Sleeping Kogoro quizzed Tequila's contact for information about the contact point, else Kogoro really should be dead by now. Still, Gin should have noted Kogoro's involvement in yet another Org. security breach

Neither Kogoro nor the police were involved in Sherry's escape.

Kogoro wasn't involved in the Hirota incident, but the police were (after the murder). Gin didn't think any of the police could've learned anything damaging, however.

Kogoro wasn't involved in the Pisco incident. The police were tipped off about the assassination before it took place, as well. However, Gin dosn't suspect that Sherry was cooperating directly with the police, under their protection. He figured she was pursuing her own goals, and he knows someone was helping her (so from his POV Kogoro's involvement would still be a possibility, as would a police officer helping her unofficially).

Kogoro was investigating Itakura before the police became involved. Plus, Gin knows someone decided to track down Itakura's cabin and tried to trick Vodka into leaving evidence. Whether he knows there was a kid involved is somewhat debatable (his deduction about the "fox" still being nearby, Conan's heavy breathing, his smirk in front of Conan's locker, the likelihood he did hear that Vodka's spotters saw a kid go into a closed station at night, along with his order to kill Conan along with Kogoro later, makes it only *somewhat* debatable, IMO).

Gin knows Vermouth involved Kogoro in the Halloween party. Possibly intended by Vermouth to be exculpatory (if Kogoro is there then he's not helping the FBI protect Sherry), but we know it didn't really help avert Gin's suspicion later.

Of course, we know Kogoro's involvement with Kir made Gin suspicious enough to ask for clearance for a hit, and that the Japanese police weren't involved on-scene at all (apart from some anime filler).

Neither Kogoro nor the Japanese police were helping the FBI hold Kir.

Kogoro was involved yet again in the Scar!Akai sightings.

Things look pretty horrible for Kogoro, if Gin bothers to look for a pattern to the security breaches around Tokyo, and has any way to get at least limited inside information from the police. The Kir incident itself makes it worse for Kogoro than Takagi or Megure (but who says the Org. wouldn't eventually target them as well).

Rather than someone in the Org. protecting Kogoro, it could just be that the Boss is such a perfectionist that he wants all likely FBI/Sherry contacts discovered before the cleanup operation. However, a cleanup operation pretty much should include Kogoro at this point.
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Stopwatch »

Nyarl wrote: Rather than someone in the Org. protecting Kogoro, it could just be that the Boss is such a perfectionist that he wants all likely FBI/Sherry contacts discovered before the cleanup operation.
Unlikely, from what we've heard the boss is very cautious, he wouldn't leave someone with potentially damaging information wandering around.
Terry Pratchett wrote: The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
bash7353 wrote:I kind of always assumed that Haneda's parents might've had names.
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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Re Nyarl, for Tequila, Itakura, and scar Akai @ Beika dept store, Kogoro was hired by someone to be there: the game company who made a game based off of him, Itakura's clients, and the red shirt sender. As these people seem to be entirely unrelated to the Org, these are all valid reasons to be involved that the Org can chalk up to coincidence.

As for Akemi's case and Kir's ding dong dash, they approached him first. While the Org could worry about how much he knows (and Gin did after Kir's case), the boss ultimately didn't deem him enough of a threat in the short term to get rid of him. Gin decided not to go after Kogoro again.
Nyarl wrote: Kogoro wasn't involved in the Pisco incident. The police were tipped off about the assassination before it took place, as well. However, Gin dosn't suspect that Sherry was cooperating directly with the police, under their protection. He figured she was pursuing her own goals, and he knows someone was helping her (so from his POV Kogoro's involvement would still be a possibility, as would a police officer helping her unofficially).
I would imagine Gin's first suspicions were on the guy who helped Shiho escape. Kogoro wasn't present at the party and someone famous like him would have been noticed. After Org vs. FBI though, the BO thinks Kir's tracker (and the matching previous one in Gin's car) was from the FBI because of Akai's ambush. Thus at this point they think Sherry and the FBI are in cahoots which makes sense because of Akai. Gin also suspects a possible collaboration between Kogoro and the FBI, but he doesn't have evidence.
Nyarl wrote: Kogoro was investigating Itakura before the police became involved. Plus, Gin knows someone decided to track down Itakura's cabin and tried to trick Vodka into leaving evidence. Whether he knows there was a kid involved is somewhat debatable (his deduction about the "fox" still being nearby, Conan's heavy breathing, his smirk in front of Conan's locker, the likelihood he did hear that Vodka's spotters saw a kid go into a closed station at night, along with his order to kill Conan along with Kogoro later, makes it only *somewhat* debatable, IMO).
It is debatable, but why would Gin not kill Conan then and there if he knew he was in there? They were already resolved to kill Itakura at the spot should he show up. Even if Gin wanted Conan for info, why not pistol whip him and haul him off for questioning?
Nyarl wrote: Gin knows Vermouth involved Kogoro in the Halloween party. Possibly intended by Vermouth to be exculpatory (if Kogoro is there then he's not helping the FBI protect Sherry), but we know it didn't really help avert Gin's suspicion later.
I looked for evidence of this and couldn't find it. The only time I saw Kogoro speak out loud about the letter was to the assistants while signing into the boat event. Later when the culprit screams about Vermouth, Kogoro responds in a way that doesn't imply he has prior knowledge of someone called Vermouth. He's vague enough to be safe.
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Nyarl »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Nyarl wrote: Gin knows Vermouth involved Kogoro in the Halloween party. Possibly intended by Vermouth to be exculpatory (if Kogoro is there then he's not helping the FBI protect Sherry), but we know it didn't really help avert Gin's suspicion later.
I looked for evidence of this and couldn't find it. The only time I saw Kogoro speak out loud about the letter was to the assistants while signing into the boat event. Later when the culprit screams about Vermouth, Kogoro responds in a way that doesn't imply he has prior knowledge of someone called Vermouth. He's vague enough to be safe.
Ah you're right, I was assuming Gin knew who Vermouth was sending the invitations to when he ordered Vodka to spy on her. This is, of course, an assumption, not a fact, and Vodka was apparently more interested in Kudo's name being mentioned, so he may never have recognized/noticed that Kogoro was there.  On that note, 673!
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Dashin »

Abs. wrote: "Is that true, Sharon... You're siding with my son against me!?"
Haha, you actually made me check the episode again to see if that was what she said. Anyway, I think such an obscure diference in meanings would be hard to pull off from a narrational point of view.
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Arisana »

James Black might even be Anokata, although unlikely. The bomb incident is still odd in the FBI versus BO arc involving a bomb in the flower pot. Had they not made the bomb noticeable and easily disposable, they would have taken out Akai without the need for Kir. Then again, that could be explained with a lack of desire for attention.
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A Detective Conan & Magic Kaito Role Playing Game.

Characters particularly wanted for the RPG: Edogawa Conan/Kudo Shinichi, Mouri Ran, Haibara Ai/Miyano Shiho Mouri Kogoro, Jodie Starling, Hattori Heiji, Toyama Kazuha, Satou Miwako, Takagi Wataru, Kir, Snake and Gin.

Many other canon positions are available too.
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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Arisana wrote: James Black might even be Anokata, although unlikely. The bomb incident is still odd in the FBI versus BO arc involving a bomb in the flower pot. Had they not made the bomb noticeable and easily disposable, they would have taken out Akai without the need for Kir. Then again, that could be explained with a lack of desire for attention.
He has an alibi. The boss contacted Gin to give approval for killing Kogoro. At the time James Black was driving Jodie and Conan to Beika city. Texting Gin while driving with Jodie and Conan is practically impossible considering Conan's eagle eyes.
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by KainTheVampire »

I don't think Yukiko would do that to her own kid :-\ And I highly doubt that Sonoko would be Anokata too
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by bluebelle »

Hi everyone! So, I'm new to this forum and also English isn't my mother tongue so I'll try to do my best in voicing my opinions in who is the big boss of our beloved BO.
First of all, I highly doubt that the big boss is one of Shinichi's/Conan's close friends and family. I don't really have anything to back that assumption but let's just call it a feeling ;)
What do we actually know about the boss? We know that he or she has already appeared  at least once in the manga. Emphasis on "appeared". He could be literally ANYONE who Aoyama has ever drawn. Well, I think we can exclude those who have not been drawn "properly", if you know what I mean (like some people standing around in the streets etc) But for the rest of them, they could well be the boss. Like for example that old guy that made a very brief apperance in the flashback of Shuichi Akai's mission (the one that Camel messed up) or even Agasa's first love, even her DRIVER could be the boss. Who knows? To be honest, I was actually quite surprised by how "well" those two were drawn so they'll probably make a second appearance sooner or later.

But to get back to the actual purpose of my post: Another question we should ask ourselves when trying to figure out the identity of the big boss is What's his goal? I mean, he wouldn't have put so much effort in creating an organisation with countless members that committs crimes that can never be solved if he didn't have a proper motivation, don't you think? So what could that motivation be?
One possible answer to that question could be: He wants to be young again. Sounds simple enough, but take a minute to think about it: He could be an old man (like the one mentioned above) who desperately tries to find means of becoming young again. I could be totally off but at least we would have some kind of connection to APTX 4869, maybe it wasn't even meant to be a toxin but instead was supposed to have the overall effect of regenerating youth?

Just some of my thoughts on the topic, sorry about the long post ;)

Edit: So here's just a little addition to my theory: I was just reading volume 28 again, the story with the mermaids. If you don' remember exactly: The sea cow arrows (direct translation from german, I'm sorry :P) are supposed to give you eternal life. Three of them are given out in a tombola every year and they have a book with all the names written down of the people that ever took part in it. While looking through them, Conan sees the name "Shiho Miyano" = Sherry. I know this might be a little far fetched but: What if she had been there with her family as a kid while the organisation was looking for ways to eternal youth? (as in pre-APTX 4869) I know that the whole mermaid-living-forever-thing was just supposed to be a myth but maybe they were just trying out all kinds of different sources for gaining eternal youth... I don't know :) i was simply reading that one just now and wanted to share my theory ;)
Last edited by bluebelle on July 30th, 2011, 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
kentasaiba
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by kentasaiba »

Yeah Ran, I always thought she is a yandere
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Bugattivr »

well, I may want to add some points.

1, Since anokata believes that akai shuichi would be the org's "silver bullet", he/she would not have known conan's true identity.

2,The BO case involves the FBI and the CIA but not the Japanese officials, anokata would likely be closely connected with the United States.

3, As haibara once said, "shinichi participated a BO project planned for more than half a century", anokata would most likely be in his/her seventies. ( since niether the manga nor the anime mentioned a transaction of bosses)

4, Since Gosho specifically hinted that haibara would be surprised to know the true identity of anokata (and not anyone else),  he/she may likely be a relative of hers, such as her grandfather who was mentioned briefly earlier in the series ...(just a guess)
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Re: My BO Boss theory's. (My opinion!)

Post by Watson »

I've sometimes wondered if the true purpose of developing APTX 4869 was actually to end eternal life, allowing one who is, for some reason, immortal to begin aging normally and eventually die a natural death.  If that were the case, anokata could be someone who is physically younger than he would like to be or someone who has lived far longer than they should have.  I wouldn't go do far as to suggest anokata has the appearance of a child, but they could be a teenager who's part of the extended cast like Makoto.  Or, someone ancient and believed long dead like Samizu Kichiemon.

This probably isn't a new theory, but this thread seems to be the current place to throw such ideas about.
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