DCTP Forums

(Note: I am doing this for fun, not out of any desire to bash the Detective Conan franchise.)

1: APTX-4869
The most glaring contradictions in the series revolve around this drug. The first thing is, of course, the matter of shrinking a person. There is X amount of matter in a person’s body, and “shrinking” them will not change that. Given this, had Shinichi Kudo shrunken into Conan Edogawa, he should still weigh the exact same as he did prior to shrinking. This is a problem because Conan has been lifted by adult characters on numerous occasions, most frequently Kogoro and Ran. Even a moderately underweight 17 year old boy will weigh over 100 lbs. If they tried to lift Conan and found that he weighed over 100 lbs, they would know immediately that he was not a normal kid. However, this has not happened, and neither Kogoro nor Ran seem to have had any difficulty in lifting Conan, implying that his weight has indeed changed. Even if we assume that the drug somehow shed a significant percentage of his body weight upon shrinking him (where did the shed body mass go? It couldn’t have just magically disappeared, and there wasn’t a lump of body mass right next to the newly shrunken Conan in Episode 2), this would mean that Shinichi would weigh about as much as a 7 year old kid should. This would make him extremely unhealthy, perhaps even unable to sustain normal bodily functions (which is to say nothing of how that would alter his appearance). Furthermore, the shrinking of the 18 year old female Shiho Miyano (as well as Conan’s apparent lack of a visible Adam’s Apple and a prepubescent voice) confirmed that the drug can reverse puberty, which seems inconsistent with the idea that APTX-4869 merely shrinks people.
The second thing is the timeline of APTX-4869’s development. Assuming that the Kohji Haneda on Haibara’s list (see Episode 129) is in fact the same Kohji Haneda who was recently introduced in the manga, then that would mean APTX-4869 was used to murder a person 17 years ago, whenever Shiho Miyano was a mere 1 years old (assuming she’s 18). If at this time the Organisation was confident enough in the drug’s level of development to use it to kill people, what did they even need Shiho for? Why go through the trouble of waiting for her to grow up and having her educated in biochemistry in order to continue what was more or less a complete project? One possibility is that they wanted her to refine the drug so that its shrinking side effect would be made the main effect, but in that case they would know about the possibility of it shrinking people, and they would’ve been able to easily find someone like Sherry (and they probably wouldn’t use it to kill people, given the risk of their victims shrinking instead).
The third thing is the drug’s purpose. Assuming that the drug was designed to kill people “with no trace”, there are easier ways to go about doing this than developing a miracle drug from scratch. If one used an exotic poisonous compound derived from some obscure rainforest plant, local forensics probably would not be able to pinpoint the substance. Furthermore, even if they simply shot people with silenced guns it could be blamed on gang violence or the mafia, or a dispute with somebody they knew which turned violent (literally hundreds of such cases have occurred throughout the 20 year run of Detective Conan). In fact, if agencies such as the FBI found out about the existence of APTX-4869 and its effects, the drug’s MO could actually be used by them to confirm that the BO was behind said murder.

2: Miscellaneous
First, in real life even if you put a chloroform-soaked rag to somebody’s face you’ll have to hold it there for a good minute or so (I’ve even heard that it takes up to five minutes) in order to put a person to sleep. The idea of a tiny tranquiliser dart totally rendering a person unconscious in five seconds is a bit absurd in my opinion, especially considering that Dr. Agasa is not known to have ever made any major scientific breakthroughs.
Second, to enroll a child into a school typically requires a fairly thorough registration process. A child with no birth certificate and no parents or legal guardians with ID (“Fumiyo Edogawa” is obviously a fictional person and as such would have no ID) probably wouldn’t be let into a school, even an elementary school. That Dr. Agasa could successful enroll both Conan and Haibara into Teitan Primary is also absurd in my opinion, though I’m not as sure about this point. Note that during the Holmes Revelation arc it was confirmed that Conan does not have a passport and would not be able to register for one.
Third, there’s the matter of how time passes in the Detective Conan universe (the story is not set in any known year but rather whatever the present year is at any given time), though the general consensus is that fans simply shouldn’t put too much thought into this.

If you can think of any others, feel free to post them here. Thoughts?

Swagnarok wrote:The second thing is the timeline of APTX-4869’s development. Assuming that the Kohji Haneda on Haibara’s list (see Episode 129) is in fact the same Kohji Haneda who was recently introduced in the manga, then that would mean APTX-4869 was used to murder a person 17 years ago, whenever Shiho Miyano was a mere 1 years old (assuming she’s 18). If at this time the Organisation was confident enough in the drug’s level of development to use it to kill people, what did they even need Shiho for? Why go through the trouble of waiting for her to grow up and having her educated in biochemistry in order to continue what was more or less a complete project? One possibility is that they wanted her to refine the drug so that its shrinking side effect would be made the main effect, but in that case they would know about the possibility of it shrinking people, and they would’ve been able to easily find someone like Sherry (and they probably wouldn’t use it to kill people, given the risk of their victims shrinking instead).

The thing they used back then most certainly not the exact APTX 4869, but rather a previous version of something that her parents worked on. 17 years ago their lab burned down and they supposedly died in the fire, along with their research data, so Haibara was to continue/reconstruct her parents research from the remaining data that survived the data. It's not explained, but I don't doubt that the BO had some other scientist try the same thing while Haibara was being raised and educated, because it wouldn't make sense to put such an important project on halt for so long, but they failed until Haibara came along and managed to continue her parents research.

As to why Shinichi and Koji are on the same list, hm, seems like they just threw all victims together. Conan and Haibara even acknowledge in 948 that the sorting of the list is questionable.

Swagnarok wrote:The third thing is the drug’s purpose. Assuming that the drug was designed to kill people “with no trace”,

That's not the purpose. Haibara says in her introduction that it wasn't her intention to create a poison and that the deadly effect was a side effect.

Swagnarok wrote:First, in real life even if you put a chloroform-soaked rag to somebody’s face you’ll have to hold it there for a good minute or so (I’ve even heard that it takes up to five minutes) in order to put a person to sleep. The idea of a tiny tranquiliser dart totally rendering a person unconscious in five seconds is a bit absurd in my opinion, especially considering that Dr. Agasa is not known to have ever made any major scientific breakthroughs.

Suspension of disbelief. The premise of the series is basically sci-fi material, so I'm willing to accept this.

Swagnarok wrote:Third, there’s the matter of how time passes in the Detective Conan universe (the story is not set in any known year but rather whatever the present year is at any given time), though the general consensus is that fans simply shouldn’t put too much thought into this.

Floating timelines have been a trope of fiction for ages. The Satyricon uses it, Don Quixote does too, as well as the Nero Wolf detective novels and modern things like superhero comics or The Simpsons do it as well.

Science fiction (which include Agasa's gadgets), detective fiction, linear storyline, episodic structure, overarching plot, floating timeline all make it rather hard to try to pinpoint any contradictions out or for Gosho to make any. You could also say it's not possible for Makoto to break huge building pillars with his physical strength, but it is. In the Detective Conan universe. And the excuse is not just "it's fiction", but that Makoto is physically the strongest character. (otherwise babies would be able to destroy buildings and people wouldn't be on their death bed from a slight stab wound like that one pregnant woman in that one case near mystery train).
It`s about inhaling the chloroform, not about how many minutes you can hold it there, I`m pretty sure.

Minor continuity error for the anime.

Namely Episode 54. Episodes 5 (The Shinkansen's Bomb Case) and 12 (The Strange Person Hunt Murder Case) were based on manga chapters which included appearances by Gin and Vodka with Conan learning their codenames and that they are part of an organization.

The anime omitted said appearances in those episodes yet, 54 (Game Company Murder Case) is adapted straight with Conan being aware of those details even though he didn't meet Gin and Vodka since Episode 1.

Antiyonder wrote:Minor continuity error for the anime.

Namely Episode 54. Episodes 5 (The Shinkansen's Bomb Case) and 12 (The Strange Person Hunt Murder Case) were based on manga chapters which included appearances by Gin and Vodka with Conan learning their codenames and that they are part of an organization.

The anime omitted said appearances in those episodes yet, 4 (Game Company Murder Case) is adapted straight with Conan being aware of those details even though he didn't meet Gin and Vodka since Episode 1.

Yeah, this was due to the anime staff's uncertainty about the future direction of the manga. After Episode 128 (1998), though? They've certainly stayed away from such incidences of messing with the continuity that much.

Whoops. Just though of another one. In the early case with Eri where Kogoro woke up drunk in a hotel room next to a dead body, Kogoro told Eri as one of the reasons he wanted her to come back to him that he was "tired of Ran's cooking". This would seem to imply that Eri's cooking is better than Ran's. However, in later episodes (and one movie) it's been stated/implied that Eri's cooking is absolutely terrible, to the point that neither Kogoro nor Conan are willing to even try it.

Swagnarok wrote:Whoops. Just though of another one. In the early case with Eri where Kogoro woke up drunk in a hotel room next to a dead body, Kogoro told Eri as one of the reasons he wanted her to come back to him that he was "tired of Ran's cooking". This would seem to imply that Eri's cooking is better than Ran's. However, in later episodes (and one movie) it's been stated/implied that Eri's cooking is absolutely terrible, to the point that neither Kogoro nor Conan are willing to even try it.

Depends I suppose. Has the manga ever acknowledged Eri's cooking as a turn off?

Antiyonder wrote:

Swagnarok wrote:Whoops. Just though of another one. In the early case with Eri where Kogoro woke up drunk in a hotel room next to a dead body, Kogoro told Eri as one of the reasons he wanted her to come back to him that he was "tired of Ran's cooking". This would seem to imply that Eri's cooking is better than Ran's. However, in later episodes (and one movie) it's been stated/implied that Eri's cooking is absolutely terrible, to the point that neither Kogoro nor Conan are willing to even try it.

Depends I suppose. Has the manga ever acknowledged Eri's cooking as a turn off?

Yes, in Eri's Birthday case.

Swagnarok wrote:Whoops. Just though of another one. In the early case with Eri where Kogoro woke up drunk in a hotel room next to a dead body, Kogoro told Eri as one of the reasons he wanted her to come back to him that he was "tired of Ran's cooking". This would seem to imply that Eri's cooking is better than Ran's. However, in later episodes (and one movie) it's been stated/implied that Eri's cooking is absolutely terrible, to the point that neither Kogoro nor Conan are willing to even try it.

Their break up started on a dispute regarding her cooking. Kogoro was trying to fix their relationship issue by indirectly saying(through that sentence) that he wants her to come home again and be the one cooking from now on(he doesn't literally mean that her food is better, nor did he even say that Ran's food was worse, just that he got tired of it).

If you want to talk about contradictions you can literally go to most of the cases and pick up the contradictory statements or things that happen during the cases. Those are contradictions and Conan's job is to figure out why. Then again that seems like too much work as alot of the things can count.

I'm cheating her this time. Not really a contradiction, just a snafu from several early manga stories reordered for the anime without really taking their placement into consideration.

1. Mountain Villa Bandaged Man Murder Case Part 2 Episode 35: Considering that Conan used Sonoko to solve the "June Bride Murder Case", why is she not his first choice? That's because in the manga, Sonoko made her debut and was first used to solve a case in this story. And we even get a scene where she's introduced to Conan. Something we don't see in Episode 6 "The Valentine Murder Case" where she made her anime debut.

2. Akaoni Village Fire Festival Murder Case Episode 38: In this situation, Conan doesn't think to use a tranq dart to subdue the criminal. That's because the manga version of this story takes place be for that case. And incidentally, the manga version of this story introduces the Power-Enhancing Kick Shoes, which Conan tries it by using it to kick a soccer ball during school and realizing that he was too overpowered.


Anyway, I'm familiar enough with the early portion of the anime (the Funimation Dubbed episodes that is), so as the manga tends to be the source of my exposure to the later stories, has the anime avoided such snafus since, or has there been some occasional bit due to reordering stories?

Well, then there was the whole episode with Akemi Miyano (Haibara's sister) which was rewritten and given a different ending with her surviving yet the BO were taken off the episode. They had to fix that with a new episode, 128, before Haibara's debut.

The Shinkansen bombing case had Gin and Vodka replaced by lookalikes that were arrested afterwards and which made little sense afterwards because Conan doesn't actually get to learn their codenames but on other episodes he shows he knows them. That's because in the manga this is the first time they're named.

There are early episodes with some messes or changes there and there too: you could check that in the DCW wiki.

Gosho being a writer with some standards and creativity is contradicted by the Chiba Love Story thing. :V

kkslider5552000 wrote:Gosho being a writer with some standards and creativity is contradicted by the Chiba Love Story thing. :V

Just to clarify—to you, is that the only thing that contradicts this?

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:

kkslider5552000 wrote:Gosho being a writer with some standards and creativity is contradicted by the Chiba Love Story thing. :V

Just to clarify—to you, is that the only thing that contradicts this?

Gosho's other problems are based on someone with more creativity as a writer and the only exception are boring ideas and settings for cases, which are even at worst are competently written.

Chiba's love story is what would happen if an amateur harem manga cut out the rest of the harem and all the shameless fanservice when it only existed for the sake of being a harem with shameless fanservice. It's an excuse plot as the plot.