Antiyonder wrote:I guess any skepticism I have about Gosho seeing that the secrecy as something not entirely fullproof or even problematic is that we have yet to have strong implications of such. In situations like The Game Company Murder Case and Reunion With the Black Organization, we have two occasions were Conan's attempts to inform one of Organization locations and activities are met with disaster. Pretty much validating the idea that keeping everyone in the dark is best without any nuanced angles.
Sorry, but I'm missing your point, here. Doesn't the failure of Shinichi/Conan to get at the Organization on his own mean that he needs capable others to help (Hence why he now has help from the FBI, CIA, and pretty close to getting the NPA's help)? Take Contact with the Black Organization (380–383/309–311)—he pretty much forms a plan on his own and pretty much acts by himself to implement it. The result? Gin thwarts it and almost finds him. The two cases you mention also end, especially in the case of the former, with a not-so-satisfactory result for Shinichi/Conan—like Contact with the Black Organization, Shinichi/Conan pretty much takes things into his own hands, and, on his own, the BO slips away. Now compare this with other BO confrontations (429–434/345; 499–504/425; 595–609/495–504; 818–824/701–704; 894–898/781–783)—with a plan he crafted with others, with these others playing active roles, he achieved greater success.
Gosho didn't have to make Ran come out of the trunk when she did (434/345)—heck, he could've had her play no role at all—he could've simply had Shuichi show up earlier, break Calvados' legs earlier, have Shiho/Ai be saved that way (and having her not see Shuichi could've been achieved, as well), and have Vermouth still escape with Shinichi/Conan. Ran didn't need to be there... and yet Gosho had her become suspicious of Jodie, connecting it with her worries, early on (6/3) about Gin and Vodka being responsible for Shinichi's disappearance, and act on it, allowing her to save Shiho/Ai.
I just don't think Shinichi/Conan is going to see the error of his ways until Ran corners him and leaves him no choice but to admit that she's figured him out.
Antiyonder wrote:If Haibara is, as you say, supposed to reflect his opinions:
1. She might acknowledge Ran to be more capable than Conan thinks, but she doesn't really put much effort into explaining such like mentioning Ran's actions in "Head-to-Head Match with the Black Organization: A Dual Mystery on a Full Moon Night".
2. Even if she believes that Shinichi needs to loosen up as the protective not boyfriend, that's not the same as suggesting that the current secrecy is wrong or at least not a perfect course of action.
With those in the know who are close to him like Yukiko, Yusaku and Heiji, it seems like they keep the secret from Ran more out of courtesy, but at least seem to suggest at one point or another that telling her might not lead to armaggedon.
Other than suggesting it as a bad option in Desperate Revival, Ai seems to be 100 percent on board with keeping Ran in the dark.
Heck, the ending of "Reunion With the Black Organization" even follows up the previous mentioned bit with Haibara reminding Conan that they'll destroy anyone who gets in their way and that they can't tell anyone. If Ai generally reflects the author, then it seems like a message to the readers who expect any change.
Let's be clear—I don't think he means all the time. I just think that she's likelier to reflect his opinions more than any other character (like in 273–275/212–213, when she says that people shouldn't kill over animal rights, that's his take/opinion on this issue—also, in 499–504/425, when Kogoro says that he only wants to see death in fiction, that's likely Gosho's opinion, as well—and this says nothing about the attitude of most protagonists about murder and death).
Neither does Masumi (771–774/648–650)—it just goes right over Shinichi's/Conan's head, again, like when Shiho/Ai mentioned it (484–486/401–402).
Shiho/Ai is still Shiho/Ai. She's still even warier of the BO than Shinichi/Conan. She doesn't even think that
he should be taking risks like he did, the night Ran saved her. She constantly reminds him that even
he could cost them everything (502/425). Think of all the info she's sitting on that could prove very useful to Shinichi/Conan, the FBI, the CIA and the NPA, because she doesn't think it'll make a difference. That's clearly not Gosho's opinion, given what the ending of DC is probably going to be. There's a limit to how much Kogoro and Shiho/Ai will reflect Gosho Aoyama's.
They probably all need a wake-up call, as well, and that will be when Shinichi/Conan tells them that Ran found him out, and he confirmed it to her. They'll have to come to terms with it all.
And because she is, you assume that's Gosho's position? Again, she's still a nervous, paranoid wreck, when it comes to the BO. She's not aware that another three people (other than Hiroshi, Yusaku, Yukiko, Heiji, Vermouth and herself) know Shinichi's/Conan's identity (Eisuke (I assume he wouldn't tell her about this, given Eisuke's been a non-factor since he left), Shuichi/Subaru and Masumi). Her speeches about this (238–242/176–178; 243) come at a time well before her opinion (at least somewhat) changes, at at a time when she's suicidal and at her most paranoid and fearful. And again, not every thing she says is what Gosho thinks.
Antiyonder wrote:DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I think Gosho has Shinichi/Conan continue to stay, even if he could stay with Shuichi/Subaru, or at Hiroshi's house, or even with the FBI, because it's been the status quo for so long, and DC is a series where filler is the norm, barring events like the Halloween Party case, Black Impact, or Clash of Red and Black. He'd have to change things up—given that he hasn't, I'd say he's not too fond of this idea.
Kind of fitting isn't it. Kogoro and Ai might be the ones that he speaks through, but Shinichi kind of shares that need for a comfort zone that he does. Though my main point is really more about how the whole "keeping secrets to keep them safe" is arguably futile if he's going to continue being a part of their lives.
With Kogoro almost getting killed (499–504/425), it shows that things can go all wrong, regardless of whether Ran knows or not. The whole "safety" thing is part of not so solid justification for his sticking around at the Mouri Detective Agency—also part of said justification is that Ran isn't as smart as the others in the know, and thus won't be prepared for what the knowledge entails... even though those in the know have been unprepared for this (Shinichi/Conan in those three cases where he tried to do so much himself), even due to each other (Shiho/Ai thwarting Shinichi's/Conan's plan in 429–434/345)... and who was there, to save the day? Ran. Except for Yukiko, Yusaku, and (after that incident) Shiho/Ai, those in the know seem to underestimate Ran... her will, her courage, and how she can still suspect the truth even after being misled by those smarter than her three times. Shinichi/Conan is trying to have the best of both worlds, at Ran's expense—he is flawed, in this respect.
Antiyonder wrote:I can't speak for others who are all for a little change, but I guess the reason I tend to feel strongly about it is that
it would arguably be a creative situation which allows for the best of both worlds. A great change for a character who like the lead was around since day one, but a change that doesn't prevent the series from being able to go on for countless more chapters/episodes.
To give some fairness, while bringing up an opposing bit:
- The 4th suspicion arc obviously wouldn't work since it requires the status quo and allows Conan to end up with two cellphones which played an essential role during later arcs, but surely there's another way to do such a set up,
like establishing that he keeps two cellphones just as a safety precaution.
-
The Shiragami and London arcs, would obviously require a more different approach. If the former is going to lead to a final suspicion arc that also does bring about change, fair enough. But I think having the development occur sooner would have still been a better call.
Especially as while the arc is still a nice change from usual, it just feels like a blatant reminder that "status quo is the God we trust".*
The London arc, while surprising, doesn't really allow for much more of a payoff other than the few we've seen since until the finale comes.
- You lose the humor and irony of Ran missing her friend unaware that he's been with her the whole time and the humor that can arise.
But surely some irony and humor could be found regardless.
One bit I like from the start of the closing chapter of "The Mystery of Conan Edogawa" is a bit where Ran is serving breakfast and "forgets" 
that Conan is too young for coffee.
Plus, to Gosho's credit,
Conan's been solving murders more openly compared to the early cases that really played up the fact that he has to solve them from behind the scenes because adults won't take him seriously. So that irony of Ran getting in his way to keep him from getting nosy seems to be reduced either way.
- Another loss would be not being able to have the occasional moments of drama of Ran missing Shinichi. But this I feel is one of the most minor losses.
See, even with Ran receiving confirmation of Conan's secret, even when their friendship receives some much needed mending, it would still be iffy for Ran to attempt an intimate relationship with a 7 year old kid even if he's really 10 years older.
As such, you arguably have much more compelling drama with the two having to deal with the fact that even without secrets between them, and even though they have mutual feelings they still can't be together romantically due to outside factors.
Plus it's a rare case of actual drama that can't be solved with intelligence alone (as opposed to the kind only in place because the characters don't communicate.
But, again I'll concede that I'm only working off what we got and there might be a few stories left requiring the old status quo.
Though it remains to be seen if they're ones that couldn't be modified to work differently or they outweigh delaying change.
*Though I will say that the arc is a good example against the rebuttal that Ran would become a burden and get in the way of Conan if she were to become part of the circle. But this arc has her attempting to keep Shinichi from running off in the middle of his transformation twice. And the second time would result in him being outed to an even greater degree. Takagi and Sato could probably be trusted to try to keep the information a secret, but then you have some outsiders discovering his id.
Of course the series could go on if Ran ended up "in the know," say, in the next 20 Files, even—look how much changed in DC since Shiho/Ai was introduced, and especially from the Vermouth arc to the Kir arc (238–621/176–508). Relationships would simply change. Ten people know now, and there's no hint that he'll be found out anytime soon, even with Heiji and
even Shinichi/Conan himself trying as they might.
This could've been used for the trick at the end of Clash of Red and Black (605–609/501–504), as opposed to the glue/coating trick.
If Ran and Kazuha knew Shinichi's/Conan's secret in the Shinigami case (646–651/521–522), there would've been no need for Shiho/Ai and Hiroshi to sneak Shinichi/Conan another temporary antidote capsule—there wouldn't have been a need for them to be in the story beyond establishing why Shinichi/Conan changed back into Shinichi—thus creating the risk that Shinichi could've changed into Shinichi/Conan in full view of a bunch of random motorists. The highway murder case (652–654/522–523) would've been uneventful.
Likewise, there would've been no need for Shinichi/Conan to use his second temporary antidote capsule prematurely, if Ran knew, thus getting rid of the risk that he'd be stranded in London.
DC's status quo is filler—got that one from one of the most veteran users on the site, Jd—it's not like most other mangas. Like it or not, the status quo is God.
Holmes' Revelation (743–752/616–621) is like the other dangling plot threads in DC—we have to wait to get the payoff we want.
The irony and humor would have to shift to Sonoko or Ran's parents, or anyone who knows Shinichi, and especially those who consider Shinichi and Ran a couple.
Yeah, that was pretty good.
In this way, Shinichi/Conan is definitely going against what Shiho/Ai would recommend—he's likely been emboldened by all his gains and new allies. Nevertheless, this behavior makes him easier to spot, and defeats the secrecy focus that he's cited for keeping Ran in the dark—he doesn't need anyone to expose him (allies or not), when he's doing so, himself.
Only in private could they exchange words that a couple might—that's really as far as they could go, in that respect.
Lack of communication is a staple of how Gosho maintains the status quo—Shinichi/Conan won't talk to Ran about the reason they're apart, Shuichi/Subaru doesn't talk to Shiho/Ai about what happened to the woman they both loved, those in the fight against the BO won't fill each other in on everything, etc. Ah, to go back and look at the series when it's all said and done... so much could be cut and even re-arranged so that the pacing could be fixed. The slow pace of the Bourbon arc is the primary reason its criticized, after all—same goes for the slow pace caused by long-dangling plot threads.
Cutting and re-arranging (and even adding) to a story to make it one more to your liking can always be done—it just depends on what you want to change. Some scenarios will require less effort (simple cutting of stories that have no character/plot establishment/development that don't have especially good mysteries in them), while some will require more.
Again—if Ran knew in both cases where Shinichi/Conan took a prototype antidote capsule (and Kazuha in one of them), there'd be no need to risk being discovered by random motorists and no need to risk being stranded in a foreign country. Keeping her in the dark is simply more hassle than its worth, on top of being incredibly disrespectful of her, and underestimating her, sorely.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
