Why do people dislike Ran?

Post any Detective Conan news, events, questions, and the like about the anime, manga, movies, or OVAs that don't belong elsewhere here.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

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kkslider5552000 wrote:That being said, I feel increasingly uninterested (and slightly uncomfortable) criticizing Gosho's writing because I have no idea how any writer wouldn't fail at something writing as much as he is, doing the genre he's been doing for as long as he has done it with the schedule mangaka tend to have. In retrospect, it isn't surprising Gosho's writing eventually had such issues, it's surprising it took as long as it to decline as slowly as it did.
From what I can tell, the problems of DC started to magnify post-Vermouth arc, and really start to glare to readers by the Bourbon arc, starting with a long buildup to what was essentially nothing (Silent Clash/Department Store Bombing), then having a year plus break from the plot almost entirely (Holmes' Revelation didn't help matters), then finally revealing the titular character in a mystery that was pretty much solved on arrival, by some, with Kaito's intervention in the, at the time, hyped case on the Mystery Train not going over so well, and being seen as lazy, and finally culminating in the titular character being revealed to be another spy (and the only hint to this not in the cases immediately preceding this reveal was a hint that he'd been in the police academy—that is not going to make readers think, immediately, "He's a PSB agent!" There was too much left open in that hint for it to be a decisive clue to the direction Gosho eventually revealed he was taking.). Throughout, character development for the well-established characters was put on hold for that of the newcomers, even though it would have been easy to implement, leading to a stagnation that still persists. The final, big mystery of the arc was completely in the wake of the end of Clash of Red and Black and the Kir arc—with Subaru Okiya being yet another red herring character whose true identity was guessed, by some, from the moment of his first appearance. Looking back on it, this arc screamed interlude, just like the Sherry/Haibara arc was an interlude between the Intro/Conan arc and the Vermouth arc, and like the Cell Phone arc was an interlude between the Vermouth arc and the Kir arc—the Bourbon arc should've been the interlude between the Kir arc and the Rum arc. While one could easily cut and rearrange cases in every arc in DC to shorten the length, the Bourbon arc could've had half of it cut—at the very least—and the most essential elements could've easily been preserved. The Bourbon arc's length is its most harmful aspect—while people would've still critiqued the arc as derivative and unoriginal in many aspects, the backlash would not have been nearly as bad, I think, had it only lasted to 2009 or 2010, instead of June 2014.

I don't know why Gosho decided to spend so long on what should've been an interlude, and stunt the character development of so many. Ran's and Shiho's/Ai's extremely limited involvement and lack of development in the Cell Phone arc and the Kir arc do not hold a candle to how they were sidelined in the Bourbon arc, especially in the strange case of Ran in London with the big event that took place, there, which led to nothing (it's now been as long as the entire Vermouth arc and the Pre-Mystery Train part of the Bourbon arc since that case).

Once Gosho resolves all the leftover threads of the Bourbon arc (Akai family and Scotch), we'll see what he's got in store.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

Post by kouzoun »

I love Ran. she is my favorite DC female character. She is sweet, kind and faithful. She cries a lot but it's just normal, even Shinichi loves this part of her. it is said that she is Gosho's favorite too.
I think the ones that hate her are mostly Shiho/Ai fans so...
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

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kouzoun wrote:I love Ran. she is my favorite DC female character. She is sweet, kind and faithful. She cries a lot but it's just normal, even Shinichi loves this part of her. it is said that she is Gosho's favorite too.
I think the ones that hate her are mostly Shiho/Ai fans so...
thank you for tl;dr the thread?
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

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kkslider5552000 wrote:
kouzoun wrote:I love Ran. she is my favorite DC female character. She is sweet, kind and faithful. She cries a lot but it's just normal, even Shinichi loves this part of her. it is said that she is Gosho's favorite too.
I think the ones that hate her are mostly Shiho/Ai fans so...
thank you for tl;dr the thread?
;) :D ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

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Ran was never designed to have a lot of personality. She was designed for her significance to the plot. First, she's present so that Conan doesn't have to stay in a house with just "uncle". Second, she's here to give Shinichi a love interest, and a compelling reason to eventually return to his normal body. Third, she's here to give the impression that somebody actually notices Shinichi's disappearance and to create tension around this fact. Fourth, she is a "bridge" to characters such as Sonoko (and later Masumi Sera). It would be weird for a 7 year old boy to be hanging around with random high school girls. Fifth, she's here to attract male readers/viewers. There's probably a lot more, but I can't think of anything.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

Post by kkslider5552000 »

Swagnarok wrote:Ran was never designed to have a lot of personality. She was designed for her significance to the plot.
I genuinely have no idea if you are saying this as a defense of the series or a criticism against it. I kinda hope the latter.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

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Swagnarok wrote:Ran was never designed to have a lot of personality. She was designed for her significance to the plot. First, she's present so that Conan doesn't have to stay in a house with just "uncle". Second, she's here to give Shinichi a love interest, and a compelling reason to eventually return to his normal body. Third, she's here to give the impression that somebody actually notices Shinichi's disappearance and to create tension around this fact. Fourth, she is a "bridge" to characters such as Sonoko (and later Masumi Sera). It would be weird for a 7 year old boy to be hanging around with random high school girls. Fifth, she's here to attract male readers/viewers. There's probably a lot more, but I can't think of anything.
I think it's the same case with every character. each and everyone in the series was designed for a purpose, not only Ran, except Conan of course cause everything and everyone are designed to... let me say "serve" him, everyone with his own way.
Plus if you think like that it will be hard to enjoy watching any other anime cause they all follow the same way, that's the basic.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

Post by Swagnarok »

I mean, let's be fair: Ran probably has an IQ of 90. I would actually suspect that the character might have a mild mental disability, if I didn't already know that Gosho Aoyama would never do that to the female lead.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

Post by kouzoun »

Swagnarok wrote:I mean, let's be fair: Ran probably has an IQ of 90. I would actually suspect that the character might have a mild mental disability, if I didn't already know that Gosho Aoyama would never do that to the female lead.
He did it with Aoko in Kaito Kid, and the girl in yaiba too. Aoyama never said that the female P should be clever equally with the Male P.
Well Ran is smart in her own way, she did solve some cases, she is not like Shinich of course, she has the intelligence of a normal person. if she was like shinichi I don't think it will be good for the show, or he wouldn't be crazy in love with her as he is now.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

Post by Mario2000 »

I agree with Kouzoun, Ran has the intelligence of a normal person, there is nothing wrong with her imo. Why would anyone think she has a mental disability? She hasn't done anything particularly stupid. Usually the fans who don't like her choose other characteristics of hers to dislike: being too good-hearted, too faithful to Shinichi (although these things are actually very good imo), being allegedly too simple and boring as a chatacter and being superstitious. But "retarded, mentally disable"? What the hell? Her behaviour is completely normal and, considering her loyalty to the people she loves, sometimes even better than just "normal" in my opinion. Only her fear of ghosts can put some negative light on her (maybe), but "superstitious" doesn't mean the same as "mentally disable".
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

Post by kouzoun »

Or "Always crying over Shinichi" thing, Well the best defense I could find is this, and I quote ( I don't own it) :

They’re best friends and she has been used to seeing him nearly every day. Of course she’d be upset. To say she’s foolish for having normal human emotions and missing or crying over the person who she LOVES while he’s away from her is RIDICULOUS. Not to mention this doesn’t keep Ran from still moving on with her life. She isn’t Bella Swan, she doesn’t sit up in her room all day bawling her eyes out. She gets out into the world, she still goes to school and goes on trips and has fun and LIVES. She doesn’t date, no, but she has no interest in dating other guys and that’s fine. She has her own life, and while she gets upset from time to time, she never lets it stop her from living fully and I think that’s downright admirable.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

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Mario2000 wrote:I agree with Kouzoun, Ran has the intelligence of a normal person, there is nothing wrong with her imo. Why would anyone think she has a mental disability? She hasn't done anything particularly stupid. Usually the fans who don't like her choose other characteristics of hers to dislike: being too good-hearted, too faithful to Shinichi (although these things are actually very good imo), being allegedly too simple and boring as a chatacter and being superstitious. But "retarded, mentally disable"? What the hell? Her behaviour is completely normal and, considering her loyalty to the people she loves, sometimes even better than just "normal" in my opinion. Only her fear of ghosts can put some negative light on her (maybe), but "superstitious" doesn't mean the same as "mentally disable".
Believe me, I am not the kind of person who would make fun of a mentally handicapped person. I did not use the wording "mentally disabled" to insult the character Ran. I was merely making an observation. She is an extremely generic, two-dimensional character, and frankly, she doesn't seem to fully fit into her age group. Somehow, her extreme altruism also makes her look less intelligent to me. Anyhow, what I meant was "developmentally delayed", as in she has the mind of a 14 year old instead of a 17 year old, not that she has something like Down Syndrome.
In any case, I am well aware that Ran having a mental disability is not and never will be canon.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

Post by kouzoun »

Swagnarok wrote:
Mario2000 wrote:I agree with Kouzoun, Ran has the intelligence of a normal person, there is nothing wrong with her imo. Why would anyone think she has a mental disability? She hasn't done anything particularly stupid. Usually the fans who don't like her choose other characteristics of hers to dislike: being too good-hearted, too faithful to Shinichi (although these things are actually very good imo), being allegedly too simple and boring as a chatacter and being superstitious. But "retarded, mentally disable"? What the hell? Her behaviour is completely normal and, considering her loyalty to the people she loves, sometimes even better than just "normal" in my opinion. Only her fear of ghosts can put some negative light on her (maybe), but "superstitious" doesn't mean the same as "mentally disable".
Believe me, I am not the kind of person who would make fun of a mentally handicapped person. I did not use the wording "mentally disabled" to insult the character Ran. I was merely making an observation. She is an extremely generic, two-dimensional character, and frankly, she doesn't seem to fully fit into her age group. Somehow, her extreme altruism also makes her look less intelligent to me. Anyhow, what I meant was "developmentally delayed", as in she has the mind of a 14 year old instead of a 17 year old, not that she has something like Down Syndrome.
In any case, I am well aware that Ran having a mental disability is not and never will be canon.
14 years old?? Well she's still a teenager, teenagers act childish sometimes, I can tell you deduce that from her crying over shinichi or how she treats little children such as Conan or the DB. So what's wrong with that, more than childish, IT'S HER PERSONALITY. Well she is mature enough to take care of many stuff, and the thing with the "developmentally delayed", I don't agree with that, totally. I don't think because Shinichi, Sera, Heiji and Shiho have the same age as her but clever ( shiho 2 years older though) So Ran must be the same or else she is "developmentally delayed". You haven't seen yet her other great parts as her sense of justice and carry personality, I bet you didn't watch all the episodes.
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

Post by kkslider5552000 »

Swagnarok wrote:
Mario2000 wrote:I agree with Kouzoun, Ran has the intelligence of a normal person, there is nothing wrong with her imo. Why would anyone think she has a mental disability? She hasn't done anything particularly stupid. Usually the fans who don't like her choose other characteristics of hers to dislike: being too good-hearted, too faithful to Shinichi (although these things are actually very good imo), being allegedly too simple and boring as a chatacter and being superstitious. But "retarded, mentally disable"? What the hell? Her behaviour is completely normal and, considering her loyalty to the people she loves, sometimes even better than just "normal" in my opinion. Only her fear of ghosts can put some negative light on her (maybe), but "superstitious" doesn't mean the same as "mentally disable".
Believe me, I am not the kind of person who would make fun of a mentally handicapped person. I did not use the wording "mentally disabled" to insult the character Ran. I was merely making an observation. She is an extremely generic, two-dimensional character, and frankly, she doesn't seem to fully fit into her age group. Somehow, her extreme altruism also makes her look less intelligent to me. Anyhow, what I meant was "developmentally delayed", as in she has the mind of a 14 year old instead of a 17 year old, not that she has something like Down Syndrome.
In any case, I am well aware that Ran having a mental disability is not and never will be canon.
I disagree for 2 main reasons.

1. Using a 3 year difference for age as some definitive example of intelligence is not...logical quite frankly. The difference in intelligence for any person at the same age as another person can so frequently be quite significant in my experience.
2. Using an idealistic shonen character's altruism as a sign of less intelligence is completely missing the point. Granted, you might not necessarily agree with the point, but that level of selflessness and idealism or whatever is not exactly anything new for shonen series.


Also, outside of her more overly altruistic (or romantic) moments, I've never really gotten the feeling that Ran was dumb. Maybe too naive or idealistic but dumb...not really?

Also, 14 year old levels of intelligence would make me think of someone being the complete opposite of Ran's characterization. 14 years old is a prime year for people to figure out the world isn't perfect and thus assume EVERYTHING IS AWFUL!!!! (which granted, might be more understandable for this year's 14 year olds :V)
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Re: Why do people dislike Ran?

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kouzoun wrote:
Swagnarok wrote:Ran was never designed to have a lot of personality. She was designed for her significance to the plot. First, she's present so that Conan doesn't have to stay in a house with just "uncle". Second, she's here to give Shinichi a love interest, and a compelling reason to eventually return to his normal body. Third, she's here to give the impression that somebody actually notices Shinichi's disappearance and to create tension around this fact. Fourth, she is a "bridge" to characters such as Sonoko (and later Masumi Sera). It would be weird for a 7 year old boy to be hanging around with random high school girls. Fifth, she's here to attract male readers/viewers. There's probably a lot more, but I can't think of anything.
I think it's the same case with every character. each and everyone in the series was designed for a purpose, not only Ran, except Conan of course cause everything and everyone are designed to... let me say "serve" him, everyone with his own way.
Plus if you think like that it will be hard to enjoy watching any other anime cause they all follow the same way, that's the basic.
Depends. Others at least have the love interest appearing a lot more sparingly than Ran. Keiko from Yu Yu Hakusho for example would be prominent at times, but would still have some notable absences at other times.

Due to Detective Conan's set up, however, Ran shows up a lot more since the main lead lives under her roof, so arguably it's more problematic than other characters in her situation. That plus the high number of chapters/episodes of the series.

While it wouldn't necessarily make her a good character (token love interest in a shonen manga), I imagine any issues with her handling wouldn't be as problematic if we were looking at a story only 25 volumes/100 episodes long.
The Mystery of Conan Edogawa.

Arguably one of the best attempts at tackling the story of "Ran discovering the secret behind Conan". It's strong point is taking a common plot for Detective Conan fan fics and presenting it in a fresh manner such as:
- Touching on things that aren't dealt with in the show or discussed much.
- While there is some understanding towards Conan's predicament, the fic doesn't ignore the problematic approach he takes towards keeping quiet.

So, do yourself a favor and read this. I only wish I could so something half as decent.
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