Ran's role changed? Other's too?

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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

Post by Misztina »

kkslider5552000 wrote: I think I remember that the original point of this topic was that Ran doesn't do anything anymore but this Okiya Subaru arc has had Ran not be completely useless like in the Eisuke arc so lets see where this goes!
Basicly yes, that's the point, but the Haibara fans are invading as always. XD

Haibara too has a lot of more potential in her character.

@Nyarl: Right, Sayaka was a real heroine. ^^ I don't think that the "Ran as a cure or whatever" is wrong, or totaly unbelievable, but we could need a few hints on this one too. Come to think of it, even Sayaka's role in Yaiba was a bit more livelier than Ran's.
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

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kirite wrote:
ranger wrote: I really thought she was always the whiny, crying girl from the beginning..I mean in the very 1st episode she was bawling her eyes out because of that case with the roller coaster...and it continues, and continues, and continues.  Even Akai once said "you're always crying" to her, lol
Well it's not everything you see someone's head get looped off with piano wire with their blood gushing out behind you because he dumped someone.  The murderer then proceeds to frame their friend and suicide later. 

well...you won't see these things everyday unless you're Shinichi... or a DC fan xD.

I always find she doesn't cry enough.  She didn't cry during the Moonlight Sonata (where someone burned themself to death willingly), she didn't cry during the coffee murder case (where someone suicide by jumping off a building for her love), and heck there are lots of tragic and traumatic murders that I always feel a sense of unease because how easily everyone takes it (or pretend to take it).  I mean sure people will get used to traumatic things, it's how firefighters/ambulance workers function.  However last time I checked she was just a normal high school girl, unless Shinichi dragged her around on murder cases ever since she was little like the Detective Boys (holy shitz they're going to be messed) I don't see why she shouldn't at least react properly to horrible events.
Dude, ran's seen like 4000 murder cases because she's always with conan/kogoro, and her best friend (not boyfriend...grr) is a walking death magnet so you'd think she'd see enough murder cases to not cry so much ya know?

And I guess you're right, its kind of funny.  She doesnt cry at all when its the most emotional cases, but if she hears the word "shinichi" she goes all apeshit and says "shinichi??! where?!! WAAAAHHH" and all of tokyo is flooded

kkslider5552000 wrote: who cares about Ran

i wanna know who okiya subaru is  :P

i hope it's bourbon

BUT YA KNOW THE LUV STORIES IS TEH BEST PARTT OF THIS DETCTEIVE ANIMU HARHAR  :(

I think I remember that the original point of this topic was that Ran doesn't do anything anymore but this Okiya Subaru arc has had Ran not be completely useless like in the Eisuke arc so lets see where this goes!
sorry for super-bashing Ran, but this is just my honest opinion.  Has she ever done anything in any arc that's remotely useful?  I can say like...one or maybe two times shes actually done something important
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

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Lol on those. Yes, that crying over Shinichi is too much sometimes. Makes her look stupid actually. _._

But what did Haibara do in the last 200 chapters? XD

"Oh no, he is suspicious!" *paranoid* "Here, an antidote." *back to the shadows*

Haibara is neglected. :(
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

Post by kkslider5552000 »

ranger wrote: Has she ever done anything in any arc that's remotely useful?  I can say like...one or maybe two times shes actually done something important
More than half of the "main plot" stuff before Haibara was introduced (hell, maybe before Jodie was introduced) was Ran but the BO stuff is so much more interesting so naturally that became the main plot instead. And they did a good job at the Shinichi and Ran relationship, especially considering how her character has no right not being horrible (but she isn't horrible thanks to Gosho's genius...although I do think she should have had better character development (to say the least)). At this point, I think she doesn't take away anything from the series, and is used as a character to get some point across to the audiance about a case (the end of episode 528 comes to mind)  or the next plot twist revealed.

With that being said, you kind of have a point. The entire Desperate Revival Arc and the Revival miniarc pratically revolved around her but she only (eventually) realized where he saw Shuichi originally, accidently discovered Jodie's pictures of Shinichi and protected Haibara, noticed a couple of things about Eisuke (looks like Mizunashi Rena) and also is an idiot who revealed that Shinichi is alive to Okiya Subaru, who I think is Bourbon. Actually, she did more than I expected. Huh.
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

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kkslider5552000 wrote: BUT YA KNOW THE LUV STORIES IS TEH BEST PARTT OF THIS DETCTEIVE ANIMU HARHAR  :(
I feel like using that quote for my sig xD.  But I'll wait something even more sarcastic.

Still the romance between Megure and Agasa, can't beat that. 

Ah whatever, like I said I don't expect Ran to do anything awesome.  The whole "all smart sexy woman like main character but he only likes the plain girl" is an anime thing.  Gosho's already not that bad when it comes to it (Ran's quite good).

It's a equivalent of "all smart sexy men like main girl character but she only likes the asshole who makes her cry and bullies her".

Oh animu.  You're so lazy sometimes. 
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

Post by AICHAN »

As for Ran, now "magically" she is more chatty, more in the front and more knowing, more more. Interesting...
 
really?i didn't notice any difference recently... i may be wrong...
Misztina wrote: Lol on those. Yes, that crying over Shinichi is too much sometimes. Makes her look stupid actually. _._

But what did Haibara do in the last 200 chapters? XD

"Oh no, he is suspicious!" *paranoid* "Here, an antidote." *back to the shadows*

Haibara is neglected. :(
loooool!
i don't know if i have to smile or being sad ::)
i have to agree that she's a bit neglected  during the last 200 chapters compared to the older chapters(we didn't see her a lot during the Kir/FBI/BO arc :-\) and for the moment she only suspect okiya and warn conan about him!
( actually i don't know what she can do considering her situation,against okiya, even if she knows he is/was a BO member!conan doesn't want to tell her anything ,and  if she does  something she is scared to put everyone around her in danger...)

but i still think she will have a big role during the okiya/akai/bo arc!
afterall she still being haunted by BO,and she didn't meet akai yet(which is likely to happen if she knows the truth about her sister's death),so she should play a big role in the future chapters ! ;)

and concerning Ran ,i don't think her role(neither her personality ::)) changed a lot:she still the main love interest ::),she gives some clues to Shinichi to solve cases (even if it's not made by purpose) which can be related to BO sometimes...
but maybe the length of the story,with a lot of new interesting caracters,can give us the feeling that her role is less important than before,even if it's not true...
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

Post by TheBlind »

Nyarl wrote: The Ran bashing threads remind me of another reason I think Aoyama is going to kill her off. Her story as a character is pretty much completed by a confession of love. We see she takes her studies and hobby seriously, but not what she really plans to do with her life outside of being Shin'ichi's girl. The only career she's shown even a fleeting interest in pursuing* in the manga was action movie actress, and that never got any follow up. Even her desire to get her parents back together has been shown to be counterproductive in the last few Eri stories, it's not really a goal she can claim for herself, it's something she ultimately has to leave for them to settle. So, apart from confessing her true love (easily accomplished with her dying breath) there's really nothing else we've been shown for her to strive for.

On the other hand, reading how Aoyama made Sayaka important to the plot in Yaiba reminds me of an old idea I had about how Ran might be biologically important to APTX research, if not the source of a cure. (It's mainly based on the fate of Sharon's handkerchief and whether that last conversation about it was merely for color and characterization, or a hint it's role as a plot device wasn't really over. It also tries to explain why Haibara avoids Ran apart from the too-easy jealousy explanation, and, of course, Vermouth's interest in Teitan High.)

* Homemaker/child rearer is a valid life's goal IMO. For men, too. But, we haven't really seen that's her life goal either, just that she has had a lot of practice taking care of a drunk deadbeat.
Your messing with the balance, you're not suppose to be on the bashing side but I agree with some of your points. But like I said before, none of this is Ran's fault but more Gosho's. If Ran was allowed to grow fluently on the path she started on, by now she would of probably been a much better character with consistency. One of Ran's biggest problems is that Gosho writes her erratically depending on his use for her or the current trend for female leads so you never know which one he'll give you.

Will he give you the one that shows she's fully aware, can handle difficult situations, & knows when to take action/back down/seek help?
Or will he gives you the Ran who breaks down in tears in difficult situations, is always looking for a Shinichi bail out, & acts like a stereotypical anime Japanese School girl in every sense?

And the crazy thing is when he has both Ran's show up in the same case, such as The Night Baron Murder Case. This one started off with a Ran that gets felt up by a stranger who proceeds to harass her after doing the act and then grabs with the intent of making her pour him drinks(surprised she even let it get this far as everyone ELSE has reacted negatively) while she's just giving you stereotypical anime girl reactions of blushing and "what are you doing?" (when Ran has shown to whip out the karate for less..even on misunderstandings ::)). Then it ends with a Ran that whips out the karate against a masked murderer before even Conan has a chance to react  and is actually aware of the case going on around her and goes to prove an alibi. Then there was the Ran that broke down crying and went into hiding during the Tottori Spider Mansion case while previous cases had established that she would jump out windows, jump on moving cars, run like crazy for help, and etc. to save someone in danger...not hide & cry.

Ran will become a better character when Gosho goes back to writing her as I think he intended, a strong person with weak qualities or goes with the frequent weak person with strong qualities, not just flip-flopping as he thinks fit for the case or viewership. And for those that don't want Ran around..seriously? you want to get rid of this?
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

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I always associate Ran's schizophrenic changes from badass Hollywood girl to subdue Japanese school girl then back to baddass Hollywood girl to be Gosho's attempt to balance "feminine and tomboy".

I'll use Ayumi in this example.

Ayumi is a very active and tomboy character.  Her two best friend are both guys and prior to Conan's arrival she's practically the leader of the group.  She enjoys watching Kamen Yaiba, old monster movies, pretends to kick monster butt, explore haunted houses or look for buried treasure.  It's also interesting to note how before meeting Conan she doesn't have much interest at romance xDD.

But the Ayumi we usually get is quite different.  Maybe we miss all the frames where she, Mitsuhiko and Genta are running around causing havok but she seems more lady-like nowadays xD.  When watching monster movies she'll cling to Conan because it's scary.  When there are bad guys around she's most likely to be made in to be damsel in distress.  Also she now daydreams about romance (her and Conan as dolls in one instance lol).  Note that this isn't BAD.  People are not suppose to be only "girly" or "tomboy".  However Gosho doesn't really have time to balance the two during a case which results in said schizophrenic changes.  Back to the example of Ayumi the only time we really saw "Ayumi" again is when she said the "I don't want to run away!" during that car and key case.

It's like he made very active and brave characters however in certain case they will be fearful and strangly doctile.  

On one hand this is normal, not everyone can be brave all the time.  However Gosho doesn't have the time to go through why everyone acts the way they do.  He tries sometimes (Ran is afraid of ghost therefore she won't act normally etc...) but in a Conan POV story he'll just say those moments happens off screen or something xDD.

On the other hand it can be just that he created strong and brave character however the role they have to play can't be like that.  Either they need Conan to save them for Conan's development, or they have to be hiding so they don't see something for a case, or..lots of reasons.

@TheBlind:  Oh yeah I forgot she sang a character song~ thank you for the link!
Last edited by kirite on August 17th, 2009, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

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kirite wrote: I always associate Ran's schizophrenic changes from badass Hollywood girl to subdue Japanese school girl then back to baddass Hollywood girl to be Gosho's attempt to balance "feminine and tomboy".

I'll use Ayumi in this example.

Ayumi is a very active and tomboy character.  Her two best friend are both guys and prior to Conan's arrival she's practically the leader of the group.  She enjoys watching Kamen Yaiba, old monster movies, pretends to kick monster butt, explore haunted houses or look for buried treasure.  It's also interesting to note how before meeting Conan she doesn't have much interest at romance xDD.

But the Ayumi we usually get is quite different.  Maybe we miss all the frames where she, Mitsuhiko and Genta are running around causing havok but she seems more lady-like nowadays xD.  When watching monster movies she'll cling to Conan because it's scary.  When there are bad guys around she's most likely to be made in to be damsel in distress.  Also she now daydreams about romance (her and Conan as dolls in one instance lol).  Note that this isn't BAD.  People are not suppose to be only "girly" or "tomboy".  However Gosho doesn't really have time to balance the two during a case which results in said schizophrenic changes.  Back to the example of Ayumi the only time we really saw "Ayumi" again is when she said the "I don't want to run away!" during that car and key case.

It's like he made very active and brave characters however in certain case they will be fearful and strangly doctile.  

On one hand this is normal, not everyone can be brave all the time.  However Gosho doesn't have the time to go through why everyone acts the way they do.  He tries sometimes (Ran is afraid of ghost therefore she won't act normally etc...) but in a Conan POV story he'll just say those moments happens off screen or something xDD.

On the other hand it can be just that he created strong and brave character however the role they have to play can't be like that.  Either they need Conan to save them for Conan's development, or they have to be hiding so they don't see something for a case, or..lots of reasons.

@TheBlind:  Oh yeah I forgot she sang a character song~ thank you for the link!
I really don't like obsessive Ayumi but from my memory, she only acted tomboyish in the first episode where she was bossing the other two around and forcing them to sneak into places. After that, she just became you average anime Japanese girl with the catch that she daydreams about justice. If she were like Mayumi(who I like better) and had her "moments" then I would agree but Ayumi seems like a very consistent character overall, even her obsessicion over Conan doesn't miss a step.
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

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TheBlind wrote:
kirite wrote: I always associate Ran's schizophrenic changes from badass Hollywood girl to subdue Japanese school girl then back to baddass Hollywood girl to be Gosho's attempt to balance "feminine and tomboy".

I'll use Ayumi in this example.

Ayumi is a very active and tomboy character.  Her two best friend are both guys and prior to Conan's arrival she's practically the leader of the group.  She enjoys watching Kamen Yaiba, old monster movies, pretends to kick monster butt, explore haunted houses or look for buried treasure.  It's also interesting to note how before meeting Conan she doesn't have much interest at romance xDD.

But the Ayumi we usually get is quite different.  Maybe we miss all the frames where she, Mitsuhiko and Genta are running around causing havok but she seems more lady-like nowadays xD.  When watching monster movies she'll cling to Conan because it's scary.  When there are bad guys around she's most likely to be made in to be damsel in distress.  Also she now daydreams about romance (her and Conan as dolls in one instance lol).  Note that this isn't BAD.  People are not suppose to be only "girly" or "tomboy".  However Gosho doesn't really have time to balance the two during a case which results in said schizophrenic changes.  Back to the example of Ayumi the only time we really saw "Ayumi" again is when she said the "I don't want to run away!" during that car and key case.

It's like he made very active and brave characters however in certain case they will be fearful and strangly doctile.  

On one hand this is normal, not everyone can be brave all the time.  However Gosho doesn't have the time to go through why everyone acts the way they do.  He tries sometimes (Ran is afraid of ghost therefore she won't act normally etc...) but in a Conan POV story he'll just say those moments happens off screen or something xDD.

On the other hand it can be just that he created strong and brave character however the role they have to play can't be like that.  Either they need Conan to save them for Conan's development, or they have to be hiding so they don't see something for a case, or..lots of reasons.

@TheBlind:  Oh yeah I forgot she sang a character song~ thank you for the link!
I really don't like obsessive Ayumi but from my memory, she only acted tomboyish in the first episode where she was bossing the other two around and forcing them to sneak into places. After that, she just became you average anime Japanese girl with the catch that she daydreams about justice. If she were like Mayumi(who I like better) and had her "moments" then I would agree but Ayumi seems like a very consistent character overall, even her obsessicion over Conan doesn't miss a step.
Actually, I was thinking maybe Aoyama drew her as "tomboyish" kind of at the beginning because she doesn't have a love interest yet, and when Conan showed up, she started behaving more girly... which I think is Gosho idea of how girls would behave near their love interest...
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

Post by ranger »

Khinkhun wrote:
TheBlind wrote:
kirite wrote: I always associate Ran's schizophrenic changes from badass Hollywood girl to subdue Japanese school girl then back to baddass Hollywood girl to be Gosho's attempt to balance "feminine and tomboy".

I'll use Ayumi in this example.

Ayumi is a very active and tomboy character.  Her two best friend are both guys and prior to Conan's arrival she's practically the leader of the group.  She enjoys watching Kamen Yaiba, old monster movies, pretends to kick monster butt, explore haunted houses or look for buried treasure.  It's also interesting to note how before meeting Conan she doesn't have much interest at romance xDD.

But the Ayumi we usually get is quite different.  Maybe we miss all the frames where she, Mitsuhiko and Genta are running around causing havok but she seems more lady-like nowadays xD.  When watching monster movies she'll cling to Conan because it's scary.  When there are bad guys around she's most likely to be made in to be damsel in distress.  Also she now daydreams about romance (her and Conan as dolls in one instance lol).  Note that this isn't BAD.  People are not suppose to be only "girly" or "tomboy".  However Gosho doesn't really have time to balance the two during a case which results in said schizophrenic changes.  Back to the example of Ayumi the only time we really saw "Ayumi" again is when she said the "I don't want to run away!" during that car and key case.

It's like he made very active and brave characters however in certain case they will be fearful and strangly doctile.  

On one hand this is normal, not everyone can be brave all the time.  However Gosho doesn't have the time to go through why everyone acts the way they do.  He tries sometimes (Ran is afraid of ghost therefore she won't act normally etc...) but in a Conan POV story he'll just say those moments happens off screen or something xDD.

On the other hand it can be just that he created strong and brave character however the role they have to play can't be like that.  Either they need Conan to save them for Conan's development, or they have to be hiding so they don't see something for a case, or..lots of reasons.

@TheBlind:  Oh yeah I forgot she sang a character song~ thank you for the link!
I really don't like obsessive Ayumi but from my memory, she only acted tomboyish in the first episode where she was bossing the other two around and forcing them to sneak into places. After that, she just became you average anime Japanese girl with the catch that she daydreams about justice. If she were like Mayumi(who I like better) and had her "moments" then I would agree but Ayumi seems like a very consistent character overall, even her obsessicion over Conan doesn't miss a step.
Actually, I was thinking maybe Aoyama drew her as "tomboyish" kind of at the beginning because she doesn't have a love interest yet, and when Conan showed up, she started behaving more girly... which I think is Gosho idea of how girls would behave near their love interest...
yeah I think you're right, but one things for sure is that  she was annoying from episode 1, lol
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

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Ayumi's intro in the anime and the manga is different.

In the anime Ayumi was forcing Genta and Mitsuhiko to sneak illegally into a rollercoaster 8D (lolwut).  After she met Conan she proceeded to follow him home, then follow him to a bloody murder scenes.  Still the weirdest line would be "uwa everything is more interesting around Conan-kun!" considering that he just lead them to a murder scene ._.

Manga Ayumi was introduced later.  Right after Akemi-case actually so I never forget.  She and the rest of her gang are going Ghost Busting and she wants to invite Conan along.  It makes sense that she "fell in love" with Conan in this case because he's so dependable when she's terrified.

Edit:

If you look at them before and look at them now the DB is very different.  I'm not sure if it's a good thing they've become so dependent on Conan though... Sure it's more convienient for Conan since they'll follow his instructions and for those of us who don't like them this will decrease the annoyance level, but the fact that they're so dependent on Conan means they won't be displaying any of their character traits.  The only one who shown a bit more character is Mitsuhiko and that's only because he has a crush on Haibara.

"Conan is so cool and reliable..."  *sad smile*
Last edited by kirite on August 18th, 2009, 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

Post by Eve »

kirite wrote: Ayumi's intro in the anime and the manga is different.

In the anime Ayumi was forcing Genta and Mitsuhiko to sneak illegally into a rollercoaster 8D (lolwut).  After she met Conan she proceeded to follow him home, then follow him to a bloody murder scenes.  Still the weirdest line would be "uwa everything is more interesting around Conan-kun!" considering that he just lead them to a murder scene ._.

Manga Ayumi was introduced later.  Right after Akemi-case actually so I never forget.  She and the rest of her gang are going Ghost Busting and she wants to invite Conan along.  It makes sense that she "fell in love" with Conan in this case because he's so dependable when she's terrified.

Edit:

If you look at them before and look at them now the DB is very different.  I'm not sure if it's a good thing they've become so dependent on Conan though... Sure it's more convienient for Conan since they'll follow his instructions and for those of us who don't like them this will decrease the annoyance level, but the fact that they're so dependent on Conan means they won't be displaying any of their character traits.  The only one who shown a bit more character is Mitsuhiko and that's only because he has a crush on Haibara.

"Conan is so cool and reliable..."  *sad smile*
LOL... conclusion: Gosho is bad with illustrating the female behavior and feelings XDDDD

Hmmm.. this point I agree... recently everything has been "we can't solve it if Conan is not here" back then They'd attempt to solve something too.... Conan is spoiling them....
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

Post by bluekaitou1412 »

kkslider5552000 wrote: who cares about Ran

i wanna know who okiya subaru is  :P

i hope it's bourbon
ok.... that's my opinion, too.
Last edited by bluekaitou1412 on August 18th, 2009, 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ran's role changed? Other's too?

Post by bluekaitou1412 »

Misztina wrote: Lol on those. Yes, that crying over Shinichi is too much sometimes. Makes her look stupid actually. _._
And that, too. I don't feel the need to share my thoughts now.

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