Ran's role changed? Other's too?

[soratothamax]

That's what I have been thinking too...maybe it's actually Gosho fault, I mean Ayumi, Ran, Kazuha, even Sonoko.... it's like he portrayed these girls as girls who are constantly thinking about their love interest... Gosho is really stuck when it comes to developing a female character in my opinion.....

DC is shonen. Shonen = young boys. I would assume a lot of young boys approve of the female characters looking not as strong or important or whatever or etc. I mean, I know I often didn't care about female characters in cartoons or anime when I was a kid (Digimon's 1st series immediately comes to mind), because I was a kid.

Either way, Ran pratically forgot about Shinichi during the Eisuke arc where she herself was forgotten (like I said before). And Ayumi is almost never portrayed as "girl who likes Conan" anymore, if I remember correctly. Also, Sonoko's awesomeness overshadows her obsession with Makoto and Kid. Plus, she's genuinely just an exagerated version of what many girls act like so it works.

Kazuha being "I'M ANGRY AT THE PERSON I LOVE" character #4853 at times is something I can't defend but 3/4 ain't bad!

LOL you speak truth, you need your own religion! 

This is what I've been saying. Thats how Shonen works! For some reason, lately, Shonen women irritate me. EXCEPT in Full Metal Alchemist...but other than that, they do. It's like in Bakugan season 2 where all the girls were removed, and nobody cared....I don't want Ran to seem that way, but lately she does seem like unimportant enough to be removed. Clash of Red and Black was an important arc. If she was forgotten in that, that shows how important she is....

This goes back to my Geisha theory. Girls who are good enough to entertain young males.....these are the types who are. A little fussy, often clingy and supportive, and dream of marriage and romance all the time. Oh, how innocent. These are the girls that young boys feel can get guys. Jodie, Satou, and Haibara...maybe, if they do a whole 360 and become nice......like Haibara has to become more caring and has to be more of a D.I.D., Satou has to become more of a prep and love romance, and Jodie...well, she has to cut back on the alcohol lol

[kkslider5552000]

This is what I've been saying. Thats how Shonen works! For some reason, lately, Shonen women irritate me. EXCEPT in Full Metal Alchemist...but other than that, they do. It's like in Bakugan season 2 where all the girls were removed, and nobody cared....I don't want Ran to seem that way, but lately she does seem like unimportant enough to be removed. Clash of Red and Black was an important arc. If she was forgotten in that, that shows how important she is....

first of all, isn't Bakugan another one of those horrible anime only made to sell toys like Beyblade and crap? Because the commercials for the show made me think that.


I think I should say that anime characters almost NEVER annoy me. They can however, bore me. (although from what I read, they rarely do...unless the fights aren't fun (Hi, Bleach!))

And they are CLEARLY doing something with Ran in this arc. But just like this arc, it's hard to tell exactly what it is.

[Nyarl]

Yea, Shinichi DID call her....but I felt even before then, she was basically calling his name in her head (some psychic thing going on). He sensed that she was waiting for him to call.....she was silently asking for Shinichi's help....A silent prayer to Shinichi. She worships him...LOL.. She was basically waiting for him to come to the rescue with this case instead of solving it on her own, much in the same way the Detective Boys have to rely on Conan to solve cases, though they initially try to solve it on their own, they end up asking Conan for help.  Haibara and Jodie-Sensei know that people can't totally rely on Shinichi to solve all of their problems just because they don't know how to handle it themselves. They can't break under pressure and ask him to take the load for them and think for them. They have to learn to think. Both have told the Dbos and Ran not to rely on Shinichi. Shinichi is helpful, yes, but if they're so dependent on Shinichi's knowledge, when it comes down to doing something, and Shinichi won't be around, what will they do? Break? Instead of saying "what will Shinichi do?", though he's a good role model, Ran should be saying "What can I do to help this situation?..."

She solved the case, she's the one who exposed the culprit, and she's the one who explained it. She only got a little coaching from Shin'ichi, and one gap filled. He never did explicitly confirm her theory, even telling her that a detective always has to worry about being wrong. (Lets not overlook that Shin'ichi can use her as a role model, too, when evaluating supposed friendships.) Even if he were dead, she could still apply lessons learned from him to situations. I guess that'd just mean his ghost should get all the credit, because Ran can't possibly move the plot by giving her own advice about how to proceed with investigations.

[soratothamax]

Yea, Shinichi DID call her....but I felt even before then, she was basically calling his name in her head (some psychic thing going on). He sensed that she was waiting for him to call.....she was silently asking for Shinichi's help....A silent prayer to Shinichi. She worships him...LOL.. She was basically waiting for him to come to the rescue with this case instead of solving it on her own, much in the same way the Detective Boys have to rely on Conan to solve cases, though they initially try to solve it on their own, they end up asking Conan for help.  Haibara and Jodie-Sensei know that people can't totally rely on Shinichi to solve all of their problems just because they don't know how to handle it themselves. They can't break under pressure and ask him to take the load for them and think for them. They have to learn to think. Both have told the Dbos and Ran not to rely on Shinichi. Shinichi is helpful, yes, but if they're so dependent on Shinichi's knowledge, when it comes down to doing something, and Shinichi won't be around, what will they do? Break? Instead of saying "what will Shinichi do?", though he's a good role model, Ran should be saying "What can I do to help this situation?..."

She solved the case, she's the one who exposed the culprit, and she's the one who explained it. She only got a little coaching from Shin'ichi, and one gap filled. He never did explicitly confirm her theory, even telling her that a detective always has to worry about being wrong. (Lets not overlook that Shin'ichi can use her as a role model, too, when evaluating supposed friendships.) Even if he were dead, she could still apply lessons learned from him to situations. I guess that'd just mean his ghost should get all the credit, because Ran can't possibly move the plot by giving her own advice about how to proceed with investigations.

That wasn't even an important case, and even though she solved it, yet again, she had to have Shinichi's advise too. Shinichi may sometimes use her as a role model when contemplating saving someone's life on occasion, but rarely. but in this particular episode, Shinichi is her role model for it because she constantly says "What would Shinichi do?" Shinichi has never said to himself "What would Ran do?" He usually already knows what to do, and his surety is part of his character. He's confident. His role model is Sherlock Holmes and his father, if anything. I can see him saying "What would Holmes do?" Over "What would Ran do?" It took Jodie-Sensei taking Ran's phone that forced Ran to solve the case on her own. If Jodie-Sensei hadn't done that, she would've been asking Shinichi to solve it, like in that case with the message in the window of her bikini picture case....forgot the name. She IMMEDIATELY called Shinichi for the case.

[Misztina]

You forget that in the store case Sonoko asked Ran to call Shinichi, but she couldn't since she didn't have his number back then and then Ran turned to Conan not to Shinichi (it is a bit paradox XD).
And in the bikini case Ran called Shinichi bcause she and Sonoko were attacked and of course they didn't wanted to sniff around since they were already in danger so the case had to be solved as soon as possible. And f you hav a great detective friend, you'd defnitely call him. At least I would in this kind of situation.

I wouldn't call Ran helpless, but she is ain't a detective, nor a genius.

About shounen woman: There are many good/interesting etc. shounen female characters  like Robin from One Piece she is a Haibara-type of girl or Nami from OP...yeah.

As for Gosho, he has the big sister complex. A big sister is caring, a bit annoying, a bit stronger than you think, nice, lovely etc. etc. DC's females(reoccuring characters) are almost all like that, don't you think?

[Schillok]

That wasn't even an important case, and even though she solved it, yet again, she had to have Shinichi's advise too. Shinichi may sometimes use her as a role model when contemplating saving someone's life on occasion, but rarely. but in this particular episode, Shinichi is her role model for it because she constantly says "What would Shinichi do?" Shinichi has never said to himself "What would Ran do?" He usually already knows what to do, and his surety is part of his character. He's confident. His role model is Sherlock Holmes and his father, if anything. I can see him saying "What would Holmes do?" Over "What would Ran do?" It took Jodie-Sensei taking Ran's phone that forced Ran to solve the case on her own. If Jodie-Sensei hadn't done that, she would've been asking Shinichi to solve it, like in that case with the message in the window of her bikini picture case....forgot the name. She IMMEDIATELY called Shinichi for the case.

Don't forget that Ran is not interested in solving cases.
Why should Ran try to solve the murder during the "bikini picture case"? She is on holiday. She is not interested in solving the crime. She doesn't want to Sonoko or herself get targeted by snooping around too much. The police was working that case already. So she has absolutly no reason trying to solve it herself.
It was different during the supermarket case - that time one of her friends was invloved and the police was not working on that "case". She had to interfere to save her from being fired, not because she loves to solve mysteries. And to help her it would have been sufficient if Shinichi solved the case for her.

[AICHAN]

As for Gosho, he has the big sister complex. A big sister is caring, a bit annoying, a bit stronger than you think, nice, lovely etc. etc. DC's females(reoccuring characters) are almost all like that, don't you think?

yeah,i think the same...you can see the number of girls/woman is DC who are like that   a little bit of diversity would be good for a long story as DC....

[soratothamax]

You forget that in the store case Sonoko asked Ran to call Shinichi, but she couldn't since she didn't have his number back then and then Ran turned to Conan not to Shinichi (it is a bit paradox XD).
And in the bikini case Ran called Shinichi bcause she and Sonoko were attacked and of course they didn't wanted to sniff around since they were already in danger so the case had to be solved as soon as possible. And f you hav a great detective friend, you'd defnitely call him. At least I would in this kind of situation.

I wouldn't call Ran helpless, but she is ain't a detective, nor a genius.

About shounen woman: There are many good/interesting etc. shounen female characters  like Robin from One Piece she is a Haibara-type of girl or Nami from OP...yeah.

As for Gosho, he has the big sister complex. A big sister is caring, a bit annoying, a bit stronger than you think, nice, lovely etc. etc. DC's females(reoccuring characters) are almost all like that, don't you think?

Ran ain't helpless, she's just not important to me. There are good Shounen characters, but usually, are those girls thought to be beautiful? Are they thought to be good and righteous? In an average Shounen anime, the girls that are looked at in a good light act very preppy and live in a fairy-tale fluff world....most girls who act like Haibara in Shounen aren't thought in a favorable light....

Some of DC's women act like big sisters, but there are a couple, as mentioned above Kahzuya, Ran, Sonoko, Ayumi, etc, that are only into...marriage...and fairy-tale princess fluff...and neither of those girls have any future goals or ambitions. It's like they're so narrow-minded. I know I sound like a prick, but i can't stand to see a woman who thinks relationships are the most important parts of life, and they don't have anywhere else to go in life or anything else to do in life. All of them just want to shop, be a princess, and be a wife to some guy that's cool. All of those girls only have big roles when it involves their "boyfriends." To me, that's very boring and not unique and annoying. It shows grade school immaturity (things change when you get older). And it shows they are not very well-developed... And states their overall importance in the story, which is not much. Obviously, they are not important enough to the story to think about anything else but the boys that are more important to the story than they are....(hiding my sarcasm) .

[soratothamax]

That wasn't even an important case, and even though she solved it, yet again, she had to have Shinichi's advise too. Shinichi may sometimes use her as a role model when contemplating saving someone's life on occasion, but rarely. but in this particular episode, Shinichi is her role model for it because she constantly says "What would Shinichi do?" Shinichi has never said to himself "What would Ran do?" He usually already knows what to do, and his surety is part of his character. He's confident. His role model is Sherlock Holmes and his father, if anything. I can see him saying "What would Holmes do?" Over "What would Ran do?" It took Jodie-Sensei taking Ran's phone that forced Ran to solve the case on her own. If Jodie-Sensei hadn't done that, she would've been asking Shinichi to solve it, like in that case with the message in the window of her bikini picture case....forgot the name. She IMMEDIATELY called Shinichi for the case.

Don't forget that Ran is not interested in solving cases.
Why should Ran try to solve the murder during the "bikini picture case"? She is on holiday. She is not interested in solving the crime. She doesn't want to Sonoko or herself get targeted by snooping around too much. The police was working that case already. So she has absolutly no reason trying to solve it herself.
It was different during the supermarket case - that time one of her friends was invloved and the police was not working on that "case". She had to interfere to save her from being fired, not because she loves to solve mysteries. And to help her it would have been sufficient if Shinichi solved the case for her.

I rest my case. She doesn't solve cases on an average basis, and when she does, she's usually receiving coaching from Shinichi. And she knows nothing about the BO aside from saving Vermouth who she doesn't truly know...she is only important because she is the "love interest" which is not enough to move the story a long. To me, she is not an important character. She will only be useful in the end when Shinichi comes home...right now, she is just taking up space, just to be another witness to a crime and be the "oh, I see!" person, like the DBoys. Ran, to me, is like the DBoys. Except she doesn't solve cases...or at least doesn't care to. She just shops all the time and cries all out for Shinichi. Very narrow-minded.

And like I said, her character is dependent on Shinichi. A lot of the story is moved where the characters are dependent on Shinichi to some degree, but at other times FBI/CIA is an American organization that knows more about the BO than Shinichi, no matter how smart he is, the BO could care less about him...and Conan can't do much with his body. Haibara invented APTX, which it's evident Shinichi can't make one himself....he's just a high school detective, so if he's solving cases, the police has to be involved.

Ran...Ran can fight, but majority of times, Shinichi uses his soccer kicks, brains, and tranquilizers to get out of situations. Really, Ran makes the process faster in a case by kicking the criminal's butt, but if Ran doesn't step in, Shinichi can usually get out of situations himself without Ran's presence. Ran notices things, but that's how all people act when Shinichi is in his "deduction" mode. Ran saves people's lives, okay, but any random criminal has saved someone's life before (I remember cases where people were saved by criminals or bystanders). To me, anybody can fill Ran's position. Okay, Shinichi loves her, but how many times do we see Shinichi and Ran together? And even now some people feel Shinichi/Conan looks better with someone else. So, what is Ran's purpose? She is there to be Shinichi's cheeleader. Every hero needs a cheerleader that makes them seem like the greatest guy on earth. Her inner feelings show her utmost support.

[Eve]

Some of DC's women act like big sisters, but there are a couple, as mentioned above Kahzuya, Ran, Sonoko, Ayumi, etc, that are only into...marriage...and fairy-tale princess fluff...and neither of those girls have any future goals or ambitions. It's like they're so narrow-minded. I know I sound like a prick, but i can't stand to see a woman who thinks relationships are the most important parts of life, and they don't have anywhere else to go in life or anything else to do in life. All of them just want to shop, be a princess, and be a wife to some guy that's cool. All of those girls only have big roles when it involves their "boyfriends." To me, that's very boring and not unique and annoying. It shows grade school immaturity (things change when you get older). And it shows they are not very well-developed... And states their overall importance in the story, which is not much. Obviously, they are not important enough to the story to think about anything else but the boys that are more important to the story than they are....(hiding my sarcasm) .

I agree.... (I'm probably a prick too then )

[kirite]

Ran ain't helpless, she's just not important to me. There are good Shounen characters, but usually, are those girls thought to be beautiful? Are they thought to be good and righteous? In an average Shounen anime, the girls that are looked at in a good light act very preppy and live in a fairy-tale fluff world....most girls who act like Haibara in Shounen aren't thought in a favorable light....

Some of DC's women act like big sisters, but there are a couple, as mentioned above Kahzuya, Ran, Sonoko, Ayumi, etc, that are only into...marriage...and fairy-tale princess fluff...and neither of those girls have any future goals or ambitions. It's like they're so narrow-minded. I know I sound like a prick, but i can't stand to see a woman who thinks relationships are the most important parts of life, and they don't have anywhere else to go in life or anything else to do in life. All of them just want to shop, be a princess, and be a wife to some guy that's cool. All of those girls only have big roles when it involves their "boyfriends." To me, that's very boring and not unique and annoying. It shows grade school immaturity (things change when you get older). And it shows they are not very well-developed... And states their overall importance in the story, which is not much. Obviously, they are not important enough to the story to think about anything else but the boys that are more important to the story than they are....(hiding my sarcasm) .

Eh nothing wrong with expressing your opinions it's what forums for.... except when mods come along swinging ban hammers but we'll just ignore them for now~  

Like I said before I don't think Haibara's character in Shounen are look to unfavorably at all.  Awesome kick ass girl who loves main character even though he's a useless jerk (not talking about Shinichi here xD) is a shounen nerd thing isn't it?

Anyways as for your blurb about how the girls in DC appear have no ambition for their future I agree.  Kazuha doesn't seem to have any, not even Haibara has any.  But I see that as only because it's unnecessary or not yet necessary to the story.  That's why I always view DC as a story with only a main character in which everything is seen from Shinichi's POV.  What's DC's story? It's the story of Detective Kudo Shinichi solving crimes and bringing justice.  Everything irrelavant to that line won't get development.  Everyone is always complaining about how slow DC is, I don't think fans will appreciate deviations of storyline into character development as much as they should .

It's right to complain that the female characters never talk about their futures.  Thing is they just don't TALK.  Can you imagine in the middle of the case we cut to a scene where Ran, Kazuha and Sonoko are talking about university submissions or scholarships xD?  Everyone will be like omg stop talking and tell me if Akai is alive already D<!  It's not just the girls, it's also the guys.  

Marriage doesn't have to be fairy tale princessy (I think marriage is icky but who cares what I think lol).  I don't see marriage as being their ambition either.  Wanting to do something for the person you like doesn't equal marriage (unless you're Shinichi -sigh-).  The reason why only their want of doing something for the person they like is shown is because Gosho only sees romantic comedy as being relavent to the cases (-sigh-).  Sure he can do a case where Sonoko inherites her parent's company, Kazuha is fed up with being in Heiji's shadow and opens a detective agency , Ran applies for med school in America, Haibara opens a pet shot, etc.... but I'm guessing he sees that as a "after high school" or "after DC" thing.  Remember they're only suppose to be 18-20 respectively, and apparently what they're going to do in the future has no relavance to any cases.  I think Gosho doesn't want too much change when Shinichi is gone.

Let me put it another way.  Heiji never wants Kazuha to get hurt.  Shinichi's "dream" is to (finally) be with the person he likes, and Sonoko...eh Shinichi doesn't really care about Sonoko xD.  Since Heiji will be too worried about Kazuha doing anything in the police force, Shinichi never considered what Kazuha's future will be.  In Shinichi's case as long as he's with her he doesn't really care what Ran does so he doesn't really worry about it (as long as it's not dangerous etc...).  If Conan doesn't worry about it and it doesn't concern cases then we won't see scenes of it.

With that said compared to other Shounen series I feel characters in this series have personalities if you look for it in cases.  I don't mind more character development but even if he doesn't, the little pieces of their personalities are good enough for me.  If I want personal individual character development I'll read FMA and Gintama (omg do you read Gintama it's so hillarious).

[Rellik]

Ran is currently (note on CURRENTLY - so dont get your knifes/guns out) unneccesary, and thats the truth, she used to be so much more but right now she is those characters that just isn't needed at the moment.

even though i said that, i am still a Ran fan and i know her time will come soon.

It's right to complain that the female characters never talk about their futures.  Thing is they just don't TALK.  Can you imagine in the middle of the case we cut to a scene where Ran, Kazuha and Sonoko are talking about university submissions or scholarships xD?  Everyone will be like omg stop talking and tell me if Akai is alive already D<!  It's not just the girls, it's also the guys. 

that is right on the mark - is true that DC definitely isnt the type of manga for this stuff

if i want female (and male) characters to talk about their futures i will go read a 'slice of life' (or maybe romance) manga or something (and no DC isn't exactly 'slice of life' xD )

(omg do you read Gintama it's so hillarious).

i know, is just like 'wtf lol' in every page

[soratothamax]

Ran ain't helpless, she's just not important to me. There are good Shounen characters, but usually, are those girls thought to be beautiful? Are they thought to be good and righteous? In an average Shounen anime, the girls that are looked at in a good light act very preppy and live in a fairy-tale fluff world....most girls who act like Haibara in Shounen aren't thought in a favorable light....

Some of DC's women act like big sisters, but there are a couple, as mentioned above Kahzuya, Ran, Sonoko, Ayumi, etc, that are only into...marriage...and fairy-tale princess fluff...and neither of those girls have any future goals or ambitions. It's like they're so narrow-minded. I know I sound like a prick, but i can't stand to see a woman who thinks relationships are the most important parts of life, and they don't have anywhere else to go in life or anything else to do in life. All of them just want to shop, be a princess, and be a wife to some guy that's cool. All of those girls only have big roles when it involves their "boyfriends." To me, that's very boring and not unique and annoying. It shows grade school immaturity (things change when you get older). And it shows they are not very well-developed... And states their overall importance in the story, which is not much. Obviously, they are not important enough to the story to think about anything else but the boys that are more important to the story than they are....(hiding my sarcasm) .

Eh nothing wrong with expressing your opinions it's what forums for.... except when mods come along swinging ban hammers but we'll just ignore them for now~  

Like I said before I don't think Haibara's character in Shounen are look to unfavorably at all.  Awesome kick ass girl who loves main character even though he's a useless jerk (not talking about Shinichi here xD) is a shounen nerd thing isn't it?

Anyways as for your blurb about how the girls in DC appear have no ambition for their future I agree.  Kazuha doesn't seem to have any, not even Haibara has any.  But I see that as only because it's unnecessary or not yet necessary to the story.  That's why I always view DC as a story with only a main character in which everything is seen from Shinichi's POV.  What's DC's story? It's the story of Detective Kudo Shinichi solving crimes and bringing justice.  Everything irrelavant to that line won't get development.  Everyone is always complaining about how slow DC is, I don't think fans will appreciate deviations of storyline into character development as much as they should .

It's right to complain that the female characters never talk about their futures.  Thing is they just don't TALK.  Can you imagine in the middle of the case we cut to a scene where Ran, Kazuha and Sonoko are talking about university submissions or scholarships xD?  Everyone will be like omg stop talking and tell me if Akai is alive already D<!  It's not just the girls, it's also the guys.  

Marriage doesn't have to be fairy tale princessy (I think marriage is icky but who cares what I think lol).  I don't see marriage as being their ambition either.  Wanting to do something for the person you like doesn't equal marriage (unless you're Shinichi -sigh-).  The reason why only their want of doing something for the person they like is shown is because Gosho only sees romantic comedy as being relavent to the cases (-sigh-).  Sure he can do a case where Sonoko inherites her parent's company, Kazuha is fed up with being in Heiji's shadow and opens a detective agency , Ran applies for med school in America, Haibara opens a pet shot, etc.... but I'm guessing he sees that as a "after high school" or "after DC" thing.  Remember they're only suppose to be 18-20 respectively, and apparently what they're going to do in the future has no relavance to any cases.  I think Gosho doesn't want too much change when Shinichi is gone.

Let me put it another way.  Heiji never wants Kazuha to get hurt.  Shinichi's "dream" is to (finally) be with the person he likes, and Sonoko...eh Shinichi doesn't really care about Sonoko xD.  Since Heiji will be too worried about Kazuha doing anything in the police force, Shinichi never considered what Kazuha's future will be.  In Shinichi's case as long as he's with her he doesn't really care what Ran does so he doesn't really worry about it (as long as it's not dangerous etc...).  If Conan doesn't worry about it and it doesn't concern cases then we won't see scenes of it.

With that said compared to other Shounen series I feel characters in this series have personalities if you look for it in cases.  I don't mind more character development but even if he doesn't, the little pieces of their personalities are good enough for me.  If I want personal individual character development I'll read FMA and Gintama (omg do you read Gintama it's so hillarious).

Ambition is not just about future. Ran, Sonoko, Kahzuya , and Ayumi have ambitions, but they all have the SAME ambition for themselves. Haibara's ambition WAS to complete her father's research. Now her ambition is live a normal life. Ran, Sonoko, Kahzuya, and Ayumi all want to find romance....that is their one ambition. Ran wants to marry Shinichi more than Shinichi than anything and hopes he confesses his love, Kahzuya wants to be with Heiji forever (according to her attitude), Sonoko wants to find true love (which she has stated before), and Ayumi wants to marry Conan....They all want to get married, and all of their ambitions have to do with their relationships. None of them have any other goals. It would seem weird if they did talk about ambitions because by this time they have become so narrow-minded, we can't see them any other way. They all want the same thing in life. And that's all. I don't ever hear them dreaming of ANYTHING ELSE. Dreaming of marriage is different from being in fairy-tale land, yes, but most of those girls look at marriage as something fairy-tale like. For instance: "Oh, my husband is going to return home to me, and he'll carry me away on a horse-drawn carriage and we'll live happily ever after...He'll always love me no matter what, even if he hasn't confessed anything I know that he will...someday." That's fairy tale thinking. Realistically, no one has to confess anything and no one has to be with anybody they love or don't, even if that person loves them. Love is taken by chance. And they constantly want to live the life of a princess, and most of them do, so they don't have any hardships, practicality, or any future ambitions other than romance. And they ALL are the same as each other....

[kirite]

Dreaming of marriage is different from being in fairy-tale land, yes, but most of those girls look at marriage as something fairy-tale like. For instance: "Oh, my husband is going to return home to me, and he'll carry me away on a horse-drawn carriage and we'll live happily ever after...He'll always love me no matter what, even if he hasn't confessed anything I know that he will...someday." That's fairy tale thinking. Realistically, no one has to confess anything and no one has to be with anybody they love or don't, even if that person loves them. Love is taken by chance. And they constantly want to live the life of a princess, and most of them do, so they don't have any hardships, practicality, or any future ambitions other than romance. And they ALL are the same as each other....

I don't recall any of them dream of a horse-drawn carriage yet.  Ayumi maybe?  But I think she'll prefere a carriage pulled by Kamen Yaiba.  Not even Sonoko dreamed of a horse-drawn carriage and she can actually afford one (Kogoro calls her horsey carriage girl lol).  None of them said anything like what you quoted so I'm not 100% where you got that quote from. 

I don't think Haibara's original goal is to complete her father's research as you said.  To create drugs of this nature requires lots of animal and human testing, considering how much she loves animals I think she's repulsed by the very idea of APTX by now.  I think her goal before is the same as her goal now- which is protect and be with the people she loves.  I think everyone elses goal both the guys and the girls are identical in this sense.  They just want to live happily with the people they love.  Ran wants Kogoro and Eri to go back together.  Haibara wants Agasa to live a healthy, safe life so he will stay with her longer.  It's a human thing. 

With that said because everyone has this basic goal, it's also fair to say they really have no ambition .  Except Shinichi who wants to be a detective, Heiji who wants to be a better detective then Shinichi , and the FBI/CIA who wants to take down the B.O.  That's why I equated future with ambition. 

As for the romance element romance mangas tell me when you fall in love you want to be with that person forever.  You won't go into your first high school crush with the mentality of "oh well it's bound to fail anyways" or something like that xD.  Whether it's true or not it doesn't matter.

As for hardship I can't say they never had hardship either.  Going to school and dealing with crap of everyday life is hardship isn't it?  Personally I don't think kindness is possible without hardship, neither is ideas about love, friendship, and understanding why people kill.  For example Sonoko is a girl that's very into dating, isn't a possible reason why because she's been brought up in a elite political misogynistic environment?  /Shrug but hey it doesn't really matter, background doesn't determine everything, what's important is how they develope in the story.  One can argue Heiji hasn't suffered enough to be a good detective (son of police chief etc...) but he's learning from his mistakes (and learning from Shinichi because Shinichi is so useful like that) as the series goes on.

[soratothamax]

Dreaming of marriage is different from being in fairy-tale land, yes, but most of those girls look at marriage as something fairy-tale like. For instance: "Oh, my husband is going to return home to me, and he'll carry me away on a horse-drawn carriage and we'll live happily ever after...He'll always love me no matter what, even if he hasn't confessed anything I know that he will...someday." That's fairy tale thinking. Realistically, no one has to confess anything and no one has to be with anybody they love or don't, even if that person loves them. Love is taken by chance. And they constantly want to live the life of a princess, and most of them do, so they don't have any hardships, practicality, or any future ambitions other than romance. And they ALL are the same as each other....

I don't recall any of them dream of a horse-drawn carriage yet.  Ayumi maybe?  But I think she'll prefere a carriage pulled by Kamen Yaiba.  Not even Sonoko dreamed of a horse-drawn carriage and she can actually afford one (Kogoro calls her horsey carriage girl lol).  None of them said anything like what you quoted so I'm not 100% where you got that quote from. 

I don't think Haibara's original goal is to complete her father's research as you said.  To create drugs of this nature requires lots of animal and human testing, considering how much she loves animals I think she's repulsed by the very idea of APTX by now.  I think her goal before is the same as her goal now- which is protect and be with the people she loves.  I think everyone elses goal both the guys and the girls are identical in this sense.  They just want to live happily with the people they love.  Ran wants Kogoro and Eri to go back together.  Haibara wants Agasa to live a healthy, safe life so he will stay with her longer.  It's a human thing. 

With that said because everyone has this basic goal, it's also fair to say they really have no ambition .  Except Shinichi who wants to be a detective, Heiji who wants to be a better detective then Shinichi , and the FBI/CIA who wants to take down the B.O.  That's why I equated future with ambition. 

As for the romance element romance mangas tell me when you fall in love you want to be with that person forever.  You won't go into your first high school crush with the mentality of "oh well it's bound to fail anyways" or something like that xD.  Whether it's true or not it doesn't matter.

As for hardship I can't say they never had hardship either.  Going to school and dealing with crap of everyday life is hardship isn't it?  Personally I don't think kindness is possible without hardship, neither is ideas about love, friendship, and understanding why people kill.  For example Sonoko is a girl that's very into dating, isn't a possible reason why because she's been brought up in a elite political misogynistic environment?   /Shrug but hey it doesn't really matter, background doesn't determine everything, what's important is how they develope in the story.  One can argue Heiji hasn't suffered enough to be a good detective (son of police chief etc...) but he's learning from his mistakes (and learning from Shinichi because Shinichi is so useful like that) as the series goes on.

ummm....I'm not quoting anything literally, I'm just using an example of fairy-tale thoughts. Their thoughts are similar to that, though not exact. everyone knows that those girls only want to get married and have no other ambitions. Their thoughts are only on boys majority of the time. Their future goals and ambitions involve boys.

Actually, Haibara did say that she wanted to complete her father's research I believe twice, and that's why she stuck with the project for so long...so....Her father's original idea for the drug was not of poison, but to raise the dead, if you remember....Haibara said his research was not to make a poison. After her parents died, she took up this research because I believe she wanted to bring her parents back to life...

Though the basic goal is to live with the ones they love, other people have many other goals too. Those particular girls named above only have one goal: to happily live with the ones they love. That's it. That is their only goals. Shinichi wants that too, but he wants to be a detective. And even though Haibara, yes, wants to live with the ones she loves, she also has achieved one of her ambitions of trying to complete the drug her father created, and will continue her goal of trying to find the antidote.

Does this make more sense? I have a hard time sometimes: Haibara, yea wants to live with the ones she loves forever, but she also is set on finding the antidote, with a little persuasion from Shinichi, finding out her past, and set on living a normal life.

Past doesn't matter, but it results in unimportant and bland characters when it isn't present. When in mystery stories, detail is everything, and the more intimate a case, the better it is. Characters make up a large part. The more intimate their past, and motives, whether dealing with regular cases or dealing with the BO, the more interesting those characters become. The unimportant ones, who can't contribute to either, though they have interesting moments, they majority of the time end up....taking up space and being more of a nuisance than an asset.