kirite wrote:
soratothamax wrote:
I think Ran should be the boss' granddaughter! And then she'll be shocked and never trust the ones she loves again. And Shinichi will be surprised because he always thought she was a normal girl.....If Ran did know she would TRY to protect him, but even without knowing Conan and Shinichi, she is very protective of him anyway, so it wouldn't really shift the story in any way. She still follows him down dark alleyways because she knows Conan disappears a lot....
Lol well I don't think Ran being the boss' granddaughter would change too much xD. It's not like being a criminal is in your blood or something. Plus Eri's dad loves Eri and in turn probably loves Ran too. If he is really the boss of B.O. I'm sure it's something that he'll rather die then let them know. If it's Kogoro's dad then well...I'm not sure xD. Though I'm sure he's proud of his troublesome son and wouldn't want to cause trouble for him since he's a "meitantei" (DC's rule of parental cool). As for trusting the ones she loves, I think unless Kogoro or Eri has been torturing people in their living room when she's in school I don't think she'll do that either xD. There will probably be some big reason as to why her family is involved in the B.O. anyways, she'll be very angry yes but she still loves her family. As for Shinichi I think the only difference is that he'll be even more protective of her and keep even more secrets from her because he'll be going against someone she loves and that she has connections to a dangerous criminal organisation.
Ran: Conan I'm going to buy groceries!
Conan: *gives stun gun* And remember...
Ran: *twitch* ...yes yes don't talk to any strangers in black.
She is protective of Conan, however she doesn't know exactly how much trouble he can get into. It's the difference between an 8 year old troublesome kid who likes to mess with things and a 18 year old who looks for crime organisations. With Ran knowing he'll also have less trouble solving cases (she won't be on HIS case too much lol). I agree that she tends to help no matter who it is so it probably won't change too much.
soratothamax wrote:
Ran TRYING to save Shinichi is still nothing. She really is not capable of saving him from the BO. She can TRY. But she will be unsuccessful...we know this already. Ran really doesn't have the resources to take down any BO member. Ran has proven ineffective with her fighting....lately when Shinichi is around she becomes the D.I.D....and chances are, instead of "saving" Shinichi, she'll be the one to get kidnapped and put in danger. I think if she had more roles like in that episode where Vermouth was revealed to be Araide-Sensei and she saved Haibara's life, she would be better off.
Well Ran does have the power of deux de machina (like Conan). However if Gosho does that too much then we'll be expecting her to cover Conan whenever he's in danger. It'll ruin the "omg they're doomed!" feeling. The Haibara case was made dramatic because Conan is knocked out, Jodie can't move, we all expected Haibara to die and that we
never expected Ran to have the ability to save Haibara nor did we expect her to be there. Considering this is a story from Conan's POV and Conan doesn't acknowlege that Ran has strength, it'll be kinda weird to have her display it all the time (he's dense but hopefully not that dense). It's like how Conan knows -logically- that Ran can kick ass but never expects her to and doesn't WANT her to.
soratothamax wrote:
Anyway, yes Shoujo does have very brave girls sometimes, and the boys are so weak. But even in shoujo they are Geisha-like....Geisha isn't always a bad thing, it is just not what every woman is like. Every woman doesn't have to cater to a man and be motherly all the time and be so "innocent and girly." There's nothing wrong with that, but it's just so common in animes that people think it should be the standard for all women. It's a stereotype, and it puts the "different" woman to the back-burner, as if that is not a real woman. This is common in almost every anime. The "Geisha-like" girl gets all the attention and is considered "love material" and is considered a "good woman" when a woman who doesn't act all giddy all the time can be a good woman too. And yet they usually get the "death-roles." Girls like Ayumi and Ran get more attention from guys in the anime than girls like Jodie-Sensei and Haibara. Satou is tough, but she has a sweet, overly justice personality. You either have to be fussy, emotional, pretty, or sweet, innocent, motherly, and protective to be considered a woman at all.
I believe your conception of splitting girls into "geisha" and "alternative" is eroneous. Firstly I'm still not comfortable of using the term "Geisha" because they're simply entertainer artisians and I don't like to use their name in such a way. The geishas
demeanor is not innocent, girly, giddy, and motherly I assure you. Traditionally Geishas are highly educated woman.
It's true that not every woman is "geisha like" as you like to put it. I'll add to that and say not all "geisha like" girls are alike. All girls are a mix of attributes that you listed, including the "non-geisha" ones. With that said unless it's
parody anime where characters are forced into generic roles for fun and purpose (like humor anime or harem anime) then there are no such thing as a -woman- character. Being able to cook is a skill and not all girl characters can do that. Being good with kids is also a skill and not all girl characters can do that. Being motherly is a character trait and not all anime girl characters have that.
Isn't Haibara also girly and motherly? Isn't Jodie also a girl concerned about her friend/partner/love interest? I don't agree that the boys in the anime pay less attention to Jodie and Haibara. Mitsuhiko fell hard for Haibara and all the guys (and girls) in school love Jodie-sensei. Heck guys love awesome girls like them, why do they think they're usually the sexiest ones? If you find that awesome girls usually have lets dates it's usually a case "main character already has one true love". As the awesome girl character will usual like the best guy, and the trend is the -best- is usual the main character, this happens a lot =_=. Another case is "I want her but I can't have her because I'm too much of a noob" syndrome. Mitsuhiko is like that, he really likes Haibara but knows that compared to Haibara he's too weak and childish. My brother also said something like that once, he says he can't date chinese girls because they're too strong for him to handle. You can say it's because Japanese boys prefere weak woman so they can boss them around (which is true) but you an also say Japanese boys are too scared to love strong girls ;D. I wouldn't say strong girls are put on the back burner either as to be the strong character they have to have lots of character development. But maybe we're thinking two different kinds of "strong" so if you give some examples to what you mean it'll be great :3.
As for catering to male interest I believe that's a whole different matter all together and does not have to do with the attributes of a character at all.
When I say Geisha, I mean the EXPECTATIONS of a Geisha are to be innocent, virgin, docile women that cater to a man's needs. Not all of them act like that, but they are supposed to be the "ideal" woman in Japan. They are not meant to have "black marks" on their records.
Even though Mistuhiko likes Haibara, what are the chances of her ending up with him? 1% if at all. And then he also likes Ayumi, the other ideal girl... It's not the CHARACTERS' feelings that show that she is not meant to be loved. It is what the author has put out, and it shows that the author, a long with many other male authors (not all), feel about solemn women. The author makes people like her, but then again, he makes it impossible for her to end up with anybody as well. The viewpoint of women like Haibara is that "she is not loved by the one she truly loves." Most tough girls like her in a lot of animes usually have that same problem. Same with Jodie-sensei.
There are guys who might like Jodie and Haibara, but they are not looked at as women who are capable of love. The author puts them in the "death-roles" where they have no other alternative but to die for the one they love because no one else wants them, and the one they love is in love with someone else. It's like "if you're not a 'real' woman you'll never find the right one."
The two guys that can be possible lovers for both Jodie and Haibara love other people as well (MistuhikoXAyumi, possibly ShuuXAkemi). So they really are not considered possible lovers. It's like that all the time.
There are many different types of women. there are laid-back women, sarcastic women, sensible women, practical women, ambitious women, strong-minded women, lazy women. There are more women than what many animes portray women (not all women act motherly: mothers are meant to be looked at as fussy, emotional, tender, caring, moralistic, good, innocent, and protective.) Most of the girls usually favored in most animes and mangas are ones who act motherly. Especially in Seinen mangas. I think it's because most guys like women who act like their mothers: catering and supportive of everything they strive for. It isn't bad, but there are other type of women too.
Being concerned about someone is different from being motherly. Motherly is being smothering, or putting you whole life aside for someone, as you would do children. Only in the case of DC, Ran and Ayumi do it with everything. With Mistuhiko representing brains, Genta representing brawn, and Ayumi representing beauty, it is obvious what the "ideal" girl is supposed to be. And Conan has said several times that Haibara isn't the cute type, or the caring type, or loving type. He has said it himself, and usually it is said at a moment where Haibara is shown affection.
There are some animes that don't always have this portrayal, but those are few rare cases, especially in Shonen and Shoujo. I mean, really Shonen mangas ARE meant to entertain a young, male audience, so the women made are meant to entertain them, which to me, is Geisha-like, and so they have to meet those "expectations" in that sense.
