Detective Conan 542-543: Ikkaku Rock's Disappearing Fish dis

[soratothamax]

I haven't much of a clue exactly if Subaru is in the BO or not (unlike Eisuke, where even a child could figure out he wasn't evil), which is why I like it.  Also, why does the "BO Spidey senses" Haibara have have randomly went on and off twice? I don't have a clue.

However, this case was pretty lame outside of everything Subaru and Haibara did (and the continuity with the fishing case). Seriously, the reason for murder felt like a blatant ripoff of another case(I want to say episodes 39-40).

I have a feeling a lot of people will change their minds about this arc after next year. (similar to how I went from not caring to loving the Eisuke arc because of the photograph case and all of Clash of Red and Black)

I agree, give this arc a chance, it just began! The good stuff doesn't happen in the beginning, it happens in the end. But I do want to see Shiho return, and have a run and chase with Gin! That would spice things up!

But I do think the Subaru thing is quite fascinating. There isn't very many clues to who he could be. With people like Akai, Vermouth, and others, it was obvious where they stood....Okiya...not so sure....

Now the basic cases....well, murder is kind of random, especially after 500+ cases, what can you expect but to see a 360?...Really, the problem is, Detective Conan is too long. It's time for Goshyo to focus on the BO and wrap this thing up...as much as I hate it, it's true.

[kkslider5552000]

I haven't much of a clue exactly if Subaru is in the BO or not (unlike Eisuke, where even a child could figure out he wasn't evil), which is why I like it.  Also, why does the "BO Spidey senses" Haibara have have randomly went on and off twice? I don't have a clue.

However, this case was pretty lame outside of everything Subaru and Haibara did (and the continuity with the fishing case). Seriously, the reason for murder felt like a blatant ripoff of another case(I want to say episodes 39-40).

I have a feeling a lot of people will change their minds about this arc after next year. (similar to how I went from not caring to loving the Eisuke arc because of the photograph case and all of Clash of Red and Black)

I agree, give this arc a chance, it just began! The good stuff doesn't happen in the beginning, it happens in the end. But I do want to see Shiho return, and have a run and chase with Gin! That would spice things up!

But I do think the Subaru thing is quite fascinating. There isn't very many clues to who he could be. With people like Akai, Vermouth, and others, it was obvious where they stood....Okiya...not so sure....

Now the basic cases....well, murder is kind of random, especially after 500+ cases, what can you expect but to see a 360?...Really, the problem is, Detective Conan is too long. It's time for Goshyo to focus on the BO and wrap this thing up...as much as I hate it, it's true.

first of all, the good stuff can happen at the beginning. The 2nd case of the Jodie arc was the amazing exploding bus case after all. I meant that they are not showing much, so that it is interesting later, even if it isnt that interesting now.

I do think Gosho should get closer to wrapping things up but not that quickly. I've enjoyed the recent cases outside of this one and the Blue Spark of Hate.

I still think that after this Okiya Subaru stuff is over with (anime-wise I'm sure that will be early 2011), they should have an arc involving Kaito Kid and somehow involve whoever he is after (BO or otherwise)...that leads to a couple of somewhat smaller arcs, that leads to a large arc that leads to the finale. It's obvious that the character development is going at a much faster rate then usual, so they can wrap everything else up so that the arcs are only two years each (shorter for those small arcs, obvious).

Hilariously enough, if I am right, there's no way it will end before 2017 like I predicted.

[ranger]

Yess im finally caught up! I just watched this ep, it was decent enough, we still need more info on this Okiya guy.


What I definetely liked and noticed in these two eps is that conan and ai always seem to grab each other's shoulders! haibara's done it like 20000 times and I've seen conan done it as well.

[Gamer1104]

Yess im finally caught up! I just watched this ep, it was decent enough, we still need more info on this Okiya guy.


What I definetely liked and noticed in these two eps is that conan and ai always seem to grab each other's shoulders! haibara's done it like 20000 times and I've seen conan done it as well.

Same! I just caught up like yesterday though (or maybe the day before that idk) so I win Haha

I too noticed the shoulder grabbing, but yeah...

Anyone else notice though that Haibara's hair turned a different shade of brown as of about 15-20 episodes ago? It's a little more red now...

[Eve]

Yess im finally caught up! I just watched this ep, it was decent enough, we still need more info on this Okiya guy.


What I definetely liked and noticed in these two eps is that conan and ai always seem to grab each other's shoulders! haibara's done it like 20000 times and I've seen conan done it as well.

Same! I just caught up like yesterday though (or maybe the day before that idk) so I win Haha

I too noticed the shoulder grabbing, but yeah...

Anyone else notice though that Haibara's hair turned a different shade of brown as of about 15-20 episodes ago? It's a little more red now...

Yeah! I noticed that too, at first it was really brownishwithahintofgreen, now it's changing into a shade of red, which is actually what people have been describing her hair...*shrugs* why didn't they do that from the beginning? (because I was wondering for a long why her hair was not brow-red like people have been describing until the recent eps with her new colors-which is suppose to be the right color...)

[Gamer1104]

Yess im finally caught up! I just watched this ep, it was decent enough, we still need more info on this Okiya guy.


What I definetely liked and noticed in these two eps is that conan and ai always seem to grab each other's shoulders! haibara's done it like 20000 times and I've seen conan done it as well.

Same! I just caught up like yesterday though (or maybe the day before that idk) so I win Haha

I too noticed the shoulder grabbing, but yeah...

Anyone else notice though that Haibara's hair turned a different shade of brown as of about 15-20 episodes ago? It's a little more red now...

Yeah! I noticed that too, at first it was really brownishwithahintofgreen, now it's changing into a shade of red, which is actually what people have been describing her hair...*shrugs* why didn't they do that from the beginning? (because I was wondering for a long why her hair was not brow-red like people have been describing until the recent eps with her new colors-which is suppose to be the right color...)

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just my eyes playing tricks on me lol and that others realized it too 

I guess it's the same reason though that Gin's hair was blonde in the beginning of the series and is now silver/white. The manga is produced in black and white with shading here and there, so I guess the anime team randomly picks a color that seems right. Haibara's hair wasn't too off in this case though, compared to Gin's hair color change 

Another example is in Hunter X Hunter where Hisoka's hair color changed from a silver color (I believe) to a red/orange color (I think, it's been too long).

[TheBlind]

Well, to lay it out in a bit of detail:

The main problem Gosho is having in keeping the suspense of the series alive is not just the revolving plotlines but the tone. The series just doesn't seem to take itself very seriously anymore--we know when a new plot character is introduced that they'll be around for two years before being swept under the carpet for another one, and that keeps going and and going. As long as the series keeps doing this 360, it just isn't going to win anyone back.

Compare the Okiya plotline in the 500's to that of Jodie from the 200's. Then Vermouth in the 300's. Then Kir in the 400's. Notice a pattern?

I really hate to be that guy, but honestly, Gosho needs to get a grip for a minute. Fantastic writer when he wants to be--and I don't want to be the one to point this out to him, but... Having to fall back on the old "wait, is this a disguise?" suspense tactic is just lousy. There are plenty of ways of introducing suspense--give Conan a real rival that undoubtedly outshines him on a case or two, and then you can get fans talking. Until then, just insinuating as to whether people are in disguise or not is just Gosho's way of having them show up 4 times before being traded for another character.

I agree with all of what you said except the part about introducing another rival into the series. This would just feed the pattern as Heiji, Okiya, Akai, & Eusike have been that guy in a couple of cases. Yeah they don't outshine Conan like you spoke of but they caught things he didn't and surprised the viewer with their deduction ability. We don't need the same trick elevated, we need to attack the problem and that is the viewer. Maybe I'm alone in this but after so many cases and seeing it all, I'm in a comfort zone because I know "Conan will always get it, he's just missing clue xxx" and Gosho needs to kick my/everyone's ass(es) out of that zone.

Starting up an arc where Conan loses his mojo would accomplish that. Don't just slam it in there out of the blue but start hinting at it with small cases where Conan misses small pieces of evidence or his deduction isn't as strong as normal leaving Kogoro or the police to clean up. Not a big deal at first but something like this would have the viewer/reader paying full attention again and then you take it up to the next step with buddy cases with Heiji. Cases where Conan actually picks the wrong culprit forcing Heiji to clean up and start wondering if something is wrong with Kudo. This gets us paying attention again as we want to solve the case before "fading Conan" to see if he's right or wrong and this opens up plot lines. Now we get to see Conan out of his comfort zone(which means so is the viewer), so how will he react?

• Will he seek out Ran more for comfort or just push everyone away?
• Would he seek help from Yusaku/Heiji or internalize his dilema?
• Would he start fearing a showdown with the B.O. because his confidence has been shaken?
• Is this Aptx4869 the cause of his current problems?

We don't need something as epic as this but something that pushes Conan out of his safe place which would get the viewer talking again and asking questions. Imagine a DC episode where the culprit is denying he did the crime while Conan is confident he did it..but we as the viewer aren't so sure? We need magic like that...and no I'm not crazy.

[kkslider5552000]

I agree with all of what you said except the part about introducing another rival into the series. This would just feed the pattern as Heiji, Okiya, Akai, & Eusike have been that guy in a couple of cases. Yeah they don't outshine Conan like you spoke of but they caught things he didn't and surprised the viewer with their deduction ability. We don't need the same trick elevated, we need to attack the problem and that is the viewer. Maybe I'm alone in this but after so many cases and seeing it all, I'm in a comfort zone because I know "Conan will always get it, he's just missing clue xxx" and Gosho needs to kick my/everyone's ass(es) out of that zone.

Starting up an arc where Conan loses his mojo would accomplish that. Don't just slam it in there out of the blue but start hinting at it with small cases where Conan misses small pieces of evidence or his deduction isn't as strong as normal leaving Kogoro or the police to clean up. Not a big deal at first but something like this would have the viewer/reader paying full attention again and then you take it up to the next step with buddy cases with Heiji. Cases where Conan actually picks the wrong culprit forcing Heiji to clean up and start wondering if something is wrong with Kudo. This gets us paying attention again as we want to solve the case before "fading Conan" to see if he's right or wrong and this opens up plot lines. Now we get to see Conan out of his comfort zone(which means so is the viewer), so how will he react?

• Will he seek out Ran more for comfort or just push everyone away?
• Would he seek help from Yusaku/Heiji or internalize his dilema?
• Would he start fearing a showdown with the B.O. because his confidence has been shaken?
• Is this Aptx4869 the cause of his current problems?

We don't need something as epic as this but something that pushes Conan out of his safe place which would get the viewer talking again and asking questions. Imagine a DC episode where the culprit is denying he did the crime while Conan is confident he did it..but we as the viewer aren't so sure? We need magic like that...and no I'm not crazy.

While I think this is an AMAZING idea, I just can't see it happening considering how long the series has been going on. But it is a great idea. (I thought of another idea myself, where Conan officially becomes completely OBSESSED with finding the Black Organization after Ran is somehow accidently hurt because of them). These ideas seem too dark and not "anime made for children" friendly enough unless they are very short arcs. (I could see your idea being used for a movie though)

[Jd-]

Well, to lay it out in a bit of detail:

The main problem Gosho is having in keeping the suspense of the series alive is not just the revolving plotlines but the tone. The series just doesn't seem to take itself very seriously anymore--we know when a new plot character is introduced that they'll be around for two years before being swept under the carpet for another one, and that keeps going and and going. As long as the series keeps doing this 360, it just isn't going to win anyone back.

Compare the Okiya plotline in the 500's to that of Jodie from the 200's. Then Vermouth in the 300's. Then Kir in the 400's. Notice a pattern?

I really hate to be that guy, but honestly, Gosho needs to get a grip for a minute. Fantastic writer when he wants to be--and I don't want to be the one to point this out to him, but... Having to fall back on the old "wait, is this a disguise?" suspense tactic is just lousy. There are plenty of ways of introducing suspense--give Conan a real rival that undoubtedly outshines him on a case or two, and then you can get fans talking. Until then, just insinuating as to whether people are in disguise or not is just Gosho's way of having them show up 4 times before being traded for another character.

I agree with all of what you said except the part about introducing another rival into the series. This would just feed the pattern as Heiji, Okiya, Akai, & Eusike have been that guy in a couple of cases. Yeah they don't outshine Conan like you spoke of but they caught things he didn't and surprised the viewer with their deduction ability. We don't need the same trick elevated, we need to attack the problem and that is the viewer. Maybe I'm alone in this but after so many cases and seeing it all, I'm in a comfort zone because I know "Conan will always get it, he's just missing clue xxx" and Gosho needs to kick my/everyone's ass(es) out of that zone.

Starting up an arc where Conan loses his mojo would accomplish that. Don't just slam it in there out of the blue but start hinting at it with small cases where Conan misses small pieces of evidence or his deduction isn't as strong as normal leaving Kogoro or the police to clean up. Not a big deal at first but something like this would have the viewer/reader paying full attention again and then you take it up to the next step with buddy cases with Heiji. Cases where Conan actually picks the wrong culprit forcing Heiji to clean up and start wondering if something is wrong with Kudo. This gets us paying attention again as we want to solve the case before "fading Conan" to see if he's right or wrong and this opens up plot lines. Now we get to see Conan out of his comfort zone(which means so is the viewer), so how will he react?

• Will he seek out Ran more for comfort or just push everyone away?
• Would he seek help from Yusaku/Heiji or internalize his dilema?
• Would he start fearing a showdown with the B.O. because his confidence has been shaken?
• Is this Aptx4869 the cause of his current problems?

We don't need something as epic as this but something that pushes Conan out of his safe place which would get the viewer talking again and asking questions. Imagine a DC episode where the culprit is denying he did the crime while Conan is confident he did it..but we as the viewer aren't so sure? We need magic like that...and no I'm not crazy.

Wow, that sounds awesome! It reminds me of The X Files where Mulder thought that aliens don't exist. That would have been a great story arc 10 years ago, but now Detective Conan doesn't even take itself too seriously. I don't think that this would work now. 

Yesh, certainly not a bad idea at all. As Ocelot said, we've unfortunately passed the point where Gosho would do anything that changes things up too much. Speaking of The X-Files, Conan has turned into its mystery equivalent--what, with the "monster mystery-of-the-week" syndrome and all.

Completely off-topic, but...

Spoiler:

I thought the first X-Files movie was just ridiculous (even as a come-and-go fan of the series). It just didn't really accomplish a lot, as far as I'm concerned. It also required a pretty thorough knowledge of everything that had happened in the series.

HOWEVER! I did love the second movie. It took what made the weekly cases of the series awesome and put it in movie form. Two thumbs up from Jd-chan.

Anyway, yeah! Let's see how this whole Okiya thing turns out and I guess we'll go from there. I hate seeing Conan becoming a parody of itself.

[kkslider5552000]

Anyway, yeah! Let's see how this whole Okiya thing turns out and I guess we'll go from there. I hate seeing Conan becoming a parody of itself.

I don't agree that Conan is becoming a parody of itself unless Okiya Subaru is revealed to be a good guy. (unless they do something amazing to make up for using that plot twist again) I mean I admit that a lot of the new cases compared to older ones seem a bit too...well...I don't know as I really have enjoyed most of them. I think the new soundtrack is pissing me off more than anything, quite honestly. (hey remember when this anime had music that made sense for a DETECTIVE anime?  :P)

However, the Blue Spark of Hatred...now that was one big self-parody. (the reason Haibara was that annoyed is still f*cking retarded and also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFWsBS4h9ak, they really need to stop using the music at 3:33)

[kkslider5552000]

I don't like Detective Conan anymore so...even though most people still like it, Gosho must hate it too! And I have an insane theory to prove that Gosho's being forced to make F*CKING MANGA

that's basically what you said

[soratothamax]

I haven't much of a clue exactly if Subaru is in the BO or not (unlike Eisuke, where even a child could figure out he wasn't evil), which is why I like it.  Also, why does the "BO Spidey senses" Haibara have have randomly went on and off twice? I don't have a clue.

However, this case was pretty lame outside of everything Subaru and Haibara did (and the continuity with the fishing case). Seriously, the reason for murder felt like a blatant ripoff of another case(I want to say episodes 39-40).

I have a feeling a lot of people will change their minds about this arc after next year. (similar to how I went from not caring to loving the Eisuke arc because of the photograph case and all of Clash of Red and Black)

I agree, give this arc a chance, it just began! The good stuff doesn't happen in the beginning, it happens in the end. But I do want to see Shiho return, and have a run and chase with Gin! That would spice things up!

But I do think the Subaru thing is quite fascinating. There isn't very many clues to who he could be. With people like Akai, Vermouth, and others, it was obvious where they stood....Okiya...not so sure....

Now the basic cases....well, murder is kind of random, especially after 500+ cases, what can you expect but to see a 360?...Really, the problem is, Detective Conan is too long. It's time for Goshyo to focus on the BO and wrap this thing up...as much as I hate it, it's true.

first of all, the good stuff can happen at the beginning. The 2nd case of the Jodie arc was the amazing exploding bus case after all. I meant that they are not showing much, so that it is interesting later, even if it isnt that interesting now.

I do think Gosho should get closer to wrapping things up but not that quickly. I've enjoyed the recent cases outside of this one and the Blue Spark of Hate.

I still think that after this Okiya Subaru stuff is over with (anime-wise I'm sure that will be early 2011), they should have an arc involving Kaito Kid and somehow involve whoever he is after (BO or otherwise)...that leads to a couple of somewhat smaller arcs, that leads to a large arc that leads to the finale. It's obvious that the character development is going at a much faster rate then usual, so they can wrap everything else up so that the arcs are only two years each (shorter for those small arcs, obvious).

Hilariously enough, if I am right, there's no way it will end before 2017 like I predicted.

I know the good stuff can happen in the beginning, it was just a play on words.  I'm just saying, you never know what will happen, so don't judge it before it even takes off.

Wasn't Kaitou Kid's father the one that taught Vermouth everything she knows about disguises?? I heard that somewhere......

Anywho I LOL at the music at 3:33 episode Blue spark of Hate! That is a weird song!

I agree @JD- we need to shake Shinichi/Conan's confidence a little so that the audience won't get lazy expecting Conan to do all the solving!  We need to get some point in the story where we'll try to figure it out ourselves rather than waiting for him to solve it! He needs to be wrong sometimes in other words......well, at least at first, and then he needs to later solve it after 5 episodes! JK

[kkslider5552000]

Wasn't Kaitou Kid's father the one that taught Vermouth everything she knows about disguises?? I heard that somewhere......

Anywho I LOL at the music at 3:33 episode Blue spark of Hate! That is a weird song!

yeah Kaitou Kid's dad taught Vermouth.

Also, the music is a horrible version of the song used immediately after it was revealed that Araide was Vermouth. The loud dramaticness of the song actually made sense that time though.

[soratothamax]

I don't like Detective Conan anymore so...even though most people still like it, Gosho must hate it too! And I have an insane theory to prove that Gosho's being forced to make F*CKING MANGA

that's basically what you said

Wow....that's kind of harsh....zi still like DC. It is never truly boring. The episodes still catch my attention, unlike some animes I won't mention. DC is not a boring anime, but it is very long. It can be overwhelming when you want Goshyo to get to the point and when you want to see action and confessions and ending. It makes you anxious because it seems like it has a long way to go......it was supposed to end this year, but it was set back for some odd reason......

[kkslider5552000]

I don't like Detective Conan anymore so...even though most people still like it, Gosho must hate it too! And I have an insane theory to prove that Gosho's being forced to make F*CKING MANGA

that's basically what you said

Wow....that's kind of harsh....zi still like DC. It is never truly boring. The episodes still catch my attention, unlike some animes I won't mention. DC is not a boring anime, but it is very long. It can be overwhelming when you want Goshyo to get to the point and when you want to see action and confessions and ending. It makes you anxious because it seems like it has a long way to go......it was supposed to end this year, but it was set back for some odd reason......

I don't care what his opinion of the series is.

I care that he is repeating himself and thinks that the creator of the series has to agree with him.


Besides, if Gosho doesn't like DC anymore, than Akira Toriyama (the creator of Dragonball) has had many suicidal thoughts every day for the past 15 years.