Detective Conan 701-704 (The Jet-Black Mystery Train) Discussion Thread

[Osaka Detective]

Hmm...

I would've been like OMG WTF if I wasn't spoiled in advance. Nonetheless, even being spoiled, it was a good 4-episode thing. Still, I prefer 425, Red vs Black and 345 over it. Should be 4th or 5th because I like this and Reunion equally.

One thing I'm bothered about this arc is the lack of dramatic music. I didn't consider it much before but after this I saw the real importance of music. There ain't no music that makes audience tense up when Bourbon walked out of a smoke. When Okiya opened his eyes, I think it was too fast. The episode should've ended with a dramatic with Okiya's glasses (shining white) clearing, showing his eyes then smiling. Then episode ends!!! I think Bourbon walking out wasn't very well done.

Nonetheless, this episode had one of the best strategies/plot over some of the fan favorites in my opinion. Conan's strategy was brilliant and I loved it. The murder was very deep and the method was cool.

Case: 8/10 - Over all except Reunion with Org
Music: 2/10 - Pretty bad. Worst, even not as good as the bank and department store ones
Tension: 5/10 - Place it over Department/Bank store one, mainly due to the music.
Plot: 9/10 - Genius Plot! Best of all BO specials, or tied.
Pacing: 7/10 - Would've gotten a 9 or 10 if I wasn't so bothered and bored with the first episode.
Characters: 5/10 - My dear kir didn't appear T_T

[kkslider5552000]

Well, from the manga, the plot isn't as stagnant as it was before this,

I'd hope so, considering how Gosho intentionally ended his own mysteries mid-arc for presumably this very reason.

[Pmofmalasia]

@Chek on Kid in the spoiler cbox (sorry on my phone and it's too difficult to quote): I think the reason the cbox devolved to such conversation this time around is because there wasn't anything in particular to discuss, since a lot of it was impossible to deduce, it was only possible to guess at what was happening. After we all came to a consensus on what we thought would happen, that's when the Kid hating started, actually triggered by the frustration of not having anything to deduce. Sure, maybe it went a bit overboard, but I wouldn't say it hampered plot discussion for the previously stated reasons. And I should also mention that I personally do generally enjoy Kid cases, so this isn't me blindly defending my Kid-hating or anything.

[Shinichi Edogawa]

I see the episodes and it's pretty good, the animation is good too.
But I didn't like the mystery train because it's not the end of the Bourbon arc. Seriously the vermouth arc was so much better that the Bourbon arc, it's not bad but Gosho is exagerating, it's been 23 volumes for this story of bourbon, and Amuro was introcued a few chapters before the mystery train. And, for me, the mystery train is a joke and his goal is to extend the series for 10 volumes.

[kkslider5552000]

I almost forgot to mention that I liked seeing Vermouth and Yukiko finally meeting again. I don't have much to add to that though, it was just exactly how Vermouth and Yukiko meeting at this current time should have been like. The scenario of former friends who have known they're technically enemies for a while, finally meeting, tends to be quite enjoyable to watch and I love how both of them were so confident despite that.

[DetectiveKir]

I see the episodes and it's pretty good, the animation is good too.
But I didn't like the mystery train because it's not the end of the Bourbon arc. Seriously the vermouth arc was so much better that the Bourbon arc, it's not bad but Gosho is exagerating, it's been 23 volumes for this story of bourbon, and Amuro was introcued a few chapters before the mystery train. And, for me, the mystery train is a joke and his goal is to extend the series for 10 volumes.

Lol what are you talking about? It's obvious that the series was going at least 10 volumes before the Bourbon arc. I thought he made it clear in a couple of his interviews that he has more Bo characters he wants to introduce, and then he'll start writing towards an ending afterwards.

Before the Bourbon arc we only had 5 known Black org members that are alive. Clearly he's gonna continue to expand his organization. We have yet to see any scientist who are continuing the drug creation, we have yet to see people primarily focused on the computer program like Tequila, and we haven't seen any guys who fund the organization since Pisco. I wouldn't be surprised if we have anywhere from 10-12 total coded Black org members before the Boss is introduced.

Lol the whining is funny, if you couldn't enjoy mystery train because it wasn't the end of the Bourbon arc that's your problem.

[dilbertschalter]

Stop being saucy.

[Shinichi Edogawa]

You didn't understand. I said that it's not necessary to continue the Bourbon arc after the mystery train, it's just a way to extend the series for more volumes, it's obvious and normal, DC is commercial like all manga.

[Shinichi Edogawa]

And I enjoy the Bourbon arc but not aftet the mystery train, because nothing happen yet, it's slow, we have to wait the next climax to see amuro doing something.

[dumytru]

it's obvious and normal, DC is commercial like all manga.

lmao
Comercial meaning something created only for the purpose of making money?
No, that's just wrong.
I don't think after all this time Gosho would do that. It's pointless.
It' is what he's done almost his entire life. He wouldn't ruin it making it comercial.

DC has a solid fanbase that won't just give up reading/watching because a certain arc hasn't ended. Actually it should be quite the opposite.

I'm fine with it being long, and honestly, I like the idea of Bourbon being an *awesome* detective (since the battle between Conan and BO is one of wits).
It'll be just awesome to see what they'll come up with triyng to defeat each other. I can't wait for it!

If you don't like it then why you watch it? (the everlasting argument lol)

Don't forget that anime is only for entertainment, and for me DC does a pretty damn awesome job.(and I'm sure I'm not the only one)

.........if that makes any sense

[Shinichi Edogawa]

Commercial do not means only for money, but we can't deny that gosho is not the only person behind conan, we have the editors, for example sera is here because a detective in volume 54 was so popular that the editor want a new character similar to this detective, same thing for heiji, eisuke, etc... So there are advice to gosho about the plot. And if they want to extend the series gosho will obey if he want to.

And I read DC because I like it, it's my right lol. But I don't like the Bourbon Arc since the Mystery Train for a lot of reasons, and I said those reasons in the previous page.

[Divin]

You didn't understand. I said that it's not necessary to continue the Bourbon arc after the mystery train, it's just a way to extend the series for more volumes, it's obvious and normal, DC is commercial like all manga.

I disregard the commercial comment and come right to the point of necessity: regardless whether we call it further on the 'Bourbon arc', Bourbon had to stick around, because ...
What did actually change in the Bell Tree Express? Haibara supposedly died. But Sherry was never Bourbon's objective! He was always on the lookout for evidence that Akai is still alive and while the majority of his acquaintances seem to believe he is in fact dead, there is still no evidence for his demise and a lot of reason for doubting it.
And since he had reasons to start his investigation around Mouri, why change that now?!

He doesn't stick around to unnecessarily expand the arc and the series in general, but any other action wouldn't respect the situation at hand.

And I enjoy the Bourbon arc but not aftet the mystery train, because nothing happen yet, it's slow, we have to wait the next climax to see amuro doing something.

Based on that comment I assume you follow the Manga as well as the Anime... anyway I have to disagree with you... in the earlier arcs there were a lot of unrelated cases, but in the cases following the Bell Tree Express you (almost) always gain bits of information, which gives at least me the feeling of progress and that the arc is going somewhere. So I deem the pace rather nice...

Here a list, probably not complete, since I don't have Chekhov's eyes and mind, but a sufficient overview of the progress made. Anyway I will designate the cases, so don't read if you don't want to get spoiled!!!

Case 237: Bell Tree Express

Spoiler: Case 238

Bourbon decides to stay around
Bourbon starts to investigate Sleeping Kogoro and suspect Conan

Spoiler: Case 239

Sera remarks that her hat shape/size/feeling after retrieval in the BTE reminded her of her brother

Spoiler: Case 240

--- (Heiji)

Spoiler: Case 241

--- (Heiji)

Spoiler: Case 242

Bourbon finds out where Prof Agasa lives

Spoiler: Case 243

It is revealed that Conan (maybe as Shinichi), Ran and Sera did in fact meet before:
Ran feels she knows Sera (magic)
Conan is confident that he met her despite not remembering when and where
Sera knows the circumstances

Spoiler: Case 244

---

Spoiler: Case 245

Jodie remembers the Red-and-Black-Clash and seems to have an epiphany about the phone she used to verify Akai's death
Bourbon listens to Jodie's and Conan's conversation and gets to know that Conan worked with the FBI and the circumstances of the cell phone (at least in part)

Spoiler: Case 246

Conan realizes/suspects that Bourbon and Vermouth were at the festival and could have overheard aforementioned conversation

Spoiler: Case 247

Bourbon listens to Conan's part of a call to Haibara mentioning 'their smell'
Sera calls somebody during a case for help and calls him ...-nii (brother)

Spoiler: Case 248

Sera discloses to Conan she has a 2nd brother
This guy apparently knows Conan

Spoiler: Case 249

---(Kaitou Kid)

[Vinnie]

Loved this episodes. I just love this arc.
I actually think that I know why Amuro hates akai. Maybe he liked Akemi since he's childhood (maybe they were friends like shin'ichi and ran , or something like that) and he thinks " akemi died because of Akai Shuicihi " .-.
I love akai Shuichi, and I know that it was he who sent that grenade ahhaahha, but I also love amuro. He's cool.

And Vermouth is just wonderful, i missed her voice and her sarcasm >.< !!! ahaha Yukiko is awesome too, But vermouth is on another level

Good episodes!

[kkslider5552000]

words

words

I'm somewhere in the middle on this. More towards Divin's opinion but still...er..well...

First of all, it's good to hear there's been progress in the manga.

...the thing is, and let's be clear about this, while Gosho clearly still cares about the quality of his series (Chiba's love life aside), he is also not an idiot. Gosho found something he could make money on for the rest of his life (like this was a major hit pretty much immediately from what I understand) and he's been smart enough to take full advantage of this. I'm not annoyed by this, I would do the same thing most likely. That's likely a factor to the series consistent slow as possible pacing, and while I wouldn't say it's coincidence that it mostly paid off, this did mean even more time to make money off the series (honestly, having the first 3 or so years just relying exclusively on the characters with minimal plot development was genius, if only an extreme version of most good pacing in long running manga). I tend to respect that balance of making products for money while still making them for the sake of making a work of fiction you genuinely want to make, probably half the reason I still respect Nintendo. Yes it is commercial (it's a product that makes money after all), but that's not necessarily a bad thing, is my point.

I do think the Bourbon arc's problem is almost exclusively how long it's gone on. I've ranted about this enough but that year and a half where the plot was just ignored was the worst idea for pacing and kinda destroyed everyone's patience for the series. I kinda feel bad for Gosho because it's pretty obvious in retrospect that he spent that time to rewrite what would happen next in the story and to appease fans, but the wait angered them more than he could have imagined.

[Shinichi Edogawa]

Of course he cares about the quality of Conan, but like you said the Bourbon arc is too long. This is that thing that I dislike, it's too long, and the mystery train seems to extend again this arc and there is a lot of things to conclude in the next climate, a lot, so I wish that gosho could end this arc in a good way, because there is too many things in this arc.

Sorry for the grammar.