Why do people dislike Ran?

[Kudo Shinchi]

@Sonoci Some of your points have merit, but overall I honestly think you're over-exaggerating the problem. Yes, Shinichi and Ran's relationship hasn't exactly been the best as of late, but that's mostly a consequence of how long DC has become, and how Gosho is prioritizing other things (cases, Black Organization, Sera, etc.) over the progress of their relationship at the moment.

Shinichi and Ran may have been separated for 20 years in real time, but in the DC universe its been a couple of months. Ran has been hurt because of his disappearance, but it's not like Shinichi is getting a kick out of it either. Yes, he's wrong for keeping Ran in the dark all this time when it's obviously not making a difference, and he insists on doing so because he legitimately believes that he's helping Ran. The way you're wording it, Shinichi is a terrible villain who constantly abuses Ran without realizing it- but that's not the picture painted by the canon.

When Ran tells Conan in episode 308 that she wishes he was Shinichi, we can see the pain Shinichi is going through. He literally tells himself in that scene that he can't tell her yet, not until the Organization's gone- basically, he's telling himself that he can't give in to his desire to tell her. He hates hiding secrets from her, that's why he tells Haibara what he did about protecting her even if he doesn't have a place in her heart anymore, which is huge coming from the once totally egotistical Shinichi. He does call her often, and it's obvious that Ran calls him a lot as well. We don't always have to see it, but there are plenty of indications it's true. Ran calls him after she remembers the NY case and they discuss it, Shinichi sends her texts to comfort her, etc. He tries his best to make her happy even when he isn't there. In the Valentine's day case he accepts Ran's chocolate and lets her know as Shinichi that he did so she wouldn't be upset, in the White Day case he returned the chocolate to her, etc. He hasn't just ditched her and gone about his life like nothing's happened.

The reason Shinichi and Ran don't discuss their feelings is because neither wants to; they're too shy. Shinichi's confessed, despite that, and now he's waiting for her to return the confession. But this has obviously made things awkward between them, as expected from people their age. The next day, even though they're both in London, Shinichi and Ran don't want to see each other. Obviously, then, they're going to have problems communicating with each other via phone. To Ran's credit, she's tried twice to return the confession, but chickened out; Shinichi's hardly the one at fault here.

We don't have any evidence that Ran thinks that Shinchi is confiding in Shinichi more than her. Whenever Conan mentions Shinichi, it's in relation to a case, and Ran hardly cares about cases.

I feel like you're overanalyzing every single thing Shinichi says, coming up with meanings that were not intended. Maybe Shinichi's statement in Desperate Revival would be abusive if Ran had doubts about her feelings for Shinichi, but that's obviously not the case. Shinichi/Conan said that to comfort Ran, to let her know that he doesn't intend to abandon her. It's an apology for how he constantly leaves her behind, every time. Look at Shinichi's pain when he's shrinking back to Conan in that same arc, before he goes to Ran. He's desperate and upset, because things will go back to normal and he still hasn't said anything to Ran. He doesn't want to go back to being "Conan." It's hard on him, just like it is on Ran. But to get back to the point- both the audience and Ran know that Ran only loves Shinichi and is not interested in anyone else. In that context, what Conan said has no underlying abusive qualities to it- Ran doesn't intend to back out, and what Conan said comforts her. That's all there is to it.

You're also interpreting Shinichi's specific confession words in an overly antagonistic way, and it's a discredit to how much thought Gosho plainly put into what words Shinichi would specifically say. They're meant to be a reflection of his character. Shinichi always thinks of things in terms of cases, so this was in character, but more specifically it's a callback to the NY case, the one where Ran first realized her feelings for Shinichi. Back in that case, when Shinichi comes to assist her in pulling Vermouth up, he calls her a 'troublesome case,' and there was no hostile content in his words then, either. Shinichi's confession symbolically refers back to that scene.

Now, despite all that, I agree with you on a few things, mostly centering on the London case. I agree that parts of it were mishandled, and Shinichi's thoughtless actions, though understandable, are inexcusable. Gosho didn't wrap it up as well as he could have. On the other hand, Ran called Shinichi out for what he did, demonstrating an awareness on Gosho's part that some of the stuff Shinichi does is really hurtful; based on that, I think Gosho will handle Ran's character well when she eventually finds out, if she hasn't already (based on strong hints recently that she suspects him). I would like to mention that while Shinici was a bit insensitive to Ran while she was crying, the reason he was so concerned about this case was because it had the potential to end millions of lives, and we all know how Shinichi feels about that. With all that said, once Ran didn't 'calm down' Shinichi dropped the case completely and just confessed to her, and as far as we know did nor bring up the case again. Doesn't excuse him for his insensitivity, but it's something.

I don't think Shinichi will realize that he's unnecessarily hurting himself and Ran until she confronts him about it. It's a flaw of his, and I'm confident that Gosho will bring this up when the reveal comes. Why? Because unlike most people, I don't believe that Conan's a Gary Stu (but that's another argument, so I won't get into that), but more importantly because people don't give Gosho enough credit for calling out Shinichi on what he's done wrong. During the Ray Curtis case, Conan was obviously portrayed as being in denial, and Heiji yelled at him for being willingly dense. In the aftermath of the Mystery Train case, Gosho went out of his way to include a scene where Haibara rightfully yells at Conan for what he put her through on the train; Gosho did not pretend that she was a-ok with what transpired.

With all that said, I'm glad you post here more often, Sonoci, your posts are always intelligent and bring some life to an otherwise pretty slow and inactive forum.

[Antiyonder]

@Sonoci Some of your points have merit, but overall I honestly think you're over-exaggerating the problem. Yes, Shinichi and Ran's relationship hasn't exactly been the best as of late, but that's mostly a consequence of how long DC has become, and how Gosho is prioritizing other things (cases, Black Organization, Sera, etc.) over the progress of their relationship at the moment.

True, but then, maybe then maybe it would have been better not to overdue the Shinichi/Ran drama unless he was prepared to actually deal with it.

Now, despite all that, I agree with you on a few things, mostly centering on the London case. I agree that parts of it were mishandled, and Shinichi's thoughtless actions, though understandable, are inexcusable. Gosho didn't wrap it up as well as he could have. On the other hand, Ran called Shinichi out for what he did, demonstrating an awareness on Gosho's part that some of the stuff Shinichi does is really hurtful; based on that, I think Gosho will handle Ran's character well when she eventually finds out, if she hasn't already (based on strong hints recently that she suspects him).

1. Perhaps, but it comes off more as painting Ran to be an irrational female who lets her emotions get in the way, rather than a woman who's rightfully pissed that a guy she loves is upsetting her. Especially when he calls her troublesome, as well as a distraction.

2. And then there's the earlier aforementioned matter of Shinichi telling Eisuke that he was not allowed to approach Ran to discuss his feelings and asking her to come with him. Frankly that's even worse than his lack of honesty, and yet it's never addressed, nor is Shinichi framed as being possessive even though such behavior counts in that regard.

[kkslider5552000]

My only contribution to this particular conversation is that the case metaphor in that scene is the stupidest sounding line possible. I can't stretch my suspense of disbelief to think anyone intelligent would think that line sounds cool. I think you could pull a "People die when they are killed" more convincingly.

[Shiromi]

It's interesting that I'm a DC fan but also got into a series called The World God Only Knows, because there's something very similar in that series. I will limit myself to the skeleton of the matter because I don't want to spoil things, but basically what the main character in TWGOK does at the beginning (and throughout the series) is actually really manipulative and wrong, even if he's doing it for good reasons. At a later point in the series, he starts to realize this and see just exactly what it is he's doing. It's tragic though because he HAS to keep doing it, even though he knows it's wrong. It eventually gets to the point where he says "I've had enough. I can't go on like this anymore". ...The only thing that sucks is that because I've been treated to that excellent story path in TWGOK, now my DC experience has been soured.

Okay, I just looked into this series because you talked about it and WTF. It's so creepy and rapey on EVERY LEVEL. It's creepy on the "treating women like objects" level; it's creepy on the "it's okay to manipulate women and treat them like shit because it means you can score with them" level; it's creepy on the "it doesn't count if she doesn't remember!" level, and it's creepy on the "that boy is being sexually assaulted every chapter" level. I only got a few chapters in before having to stop because I really don't like stuff with this kind of creepiness, especially when it's not treated like the horror that it is. Does it change and acknowledge this stuff? WHY IS IT POPULAR?

[Kudo Shinchi]

My only contribution to this particular conversation is that the case metaphor in that scene is the stupidest sounding line possible. I can't stretch my suspense of disbelief to think anyone intelligent would think that line sounds cool. I think you could pull a "People die when they are killed" more convincingly.

You need to stretch your suspense of disbelief more

On a more serious point, I could care less how the line sounds. My points behinds its meaning and its purpose still stands, and that it is not some abusive/offensive line that Shinichi told Ran because he's an insensitive jerk. I mean, come on people, give Shinichi a little more credit.

1. Perhaps, but it comes off more as painting Ran to be an irrational female who lets her emotions get in the way, rather than a woman who's rightfully pissed that a guy she loves is upsetting her. Especially when he calls her troublesome, as well as a distraction.

2. And then there's the earlier aforementioned matter of Shinichi telling Eisuke that he was not allowed to approach Ran to discuss his feelings and asking her to come with him. Frankly that's even worse than his lack of honesty, and yet it's never addressed, nor is Shinichi framed as being possessive even though such behavior counts in that regard.

1. How does it come across as that, though? If it does to you, then we'll have to agree to disagree, because the vibe I get from that scene is not that at all. As for the last part, see above.

2. Agreed. This is one of the few times I think Gosho legitimately messed up, even if it obviously wasn't his intention. That said, the scene doesn't bother me much. It's one off scene among tons of great ones.

[Antiyonder]

1. How does it come across as that, though? If it does to you, then we'll have to agree to disagree, because the vibe I get from that scene is not that at all. As for the last part, see above.

I don't know how to best describe it honestly, but here goes. Now looking at the scene in particular as Sonoci stated:

He runs after her, tells her to wait, forcibly grabs her arm, calls her troublesome, dismisses her emotions as "distracting" and dismisses her status as a person by CALLING HER A CASE.

Basically he's calling her a troublesome and a case, while blowing off her feelings. Yet the scene overall is romanticized due to the confession, and I don't feel any "What the Hell, Hero?" vibes when it clearly qualifies as such.

[sonoci]

@Sonoci Some of your points have merit, but overall I honestly think you're over-exaggerating the problem. Yes, Shinichi and Ran's relationship hasn't exactly been the best as of late, but that's mostly a consequence of how long DC has become, and how Gosho is prioritizing other things (cases, Black Organization, Sera, etc.) over the progress of their relationship at the moment.

I do believe that a lot of the problems are due to the length - for instance, up to Desperate Revival was definitely good stuff and many of the following moments were also good - but I think it's fair to say that length can't really excuse the extreme differences that started happening around episode 450 on (this is a very loose number as I haven't watched the show in quite some time). Case wise I think around the cell phone fiasco was when things kind of started to decline.

Shinichi has definitely had some good moments, like when he told Haibara that he didn't want to see her cry, but my main issue is that Shinichi has seemed to have forgotten his own words. Not only with the Eisuke scene but also the London scene. It's just such a 180 from the same character that said "I never want to see her cry". I mean, for Gosho it makes sense for him to have maybe lost track of that line since it's been years, but for Shinichi to change that much in the comic time of a few months? It takes a toll on the story, and in a bad way.

Shinichi and Ran may have been separated for 20 years in real time, but in the DC universe its been a couple of months. Ran has been hurt because of his disappearance, but it's not like Shinichi is getting a kick out of it either. Yes, he's wrong for keeping Ran in the dark all this time when it's obviously not making a difference, and he insists on doing so because he legitimately believes that he's helping Ran. The way you're wording it, Shinichi is a terrible villain who constantly abuses Ran without realizing it- but that's not the picture painted by the canon.

In regards to the bolded part, I'd like to quote my original post on the matter:

Now, before people get on my back like "What?! Abusive!? Shinichi would never do that!", I have to say that yes, he wouldn't do that willingly. ...But the fact is that he is unknowingly abusive. As long as his lies stand strong and nothing bad happens he - along with the audience, as demonstrated by the very same cries of "he's not abusive" - will believe that he didn't do anything wrong. But the thing is, he IS and he needs something to come along and show him that's he's in the wrong.

There's a very important phrase to be said: Good people can be abusive without meaning to. I'm not saying that Shinichi is a villain, but what I'm saying is that he's doing some pretty bad things that aren't being portrayed in a bad light...and that's a problem.

When Ran tells Conan in episode 308 that she wishes he was Shinichi, we can see the pain Shinichi is going through. He literally tells himself in that scene that he can't tell her yet, not until the Organization's gone- basically, he's telling himself that he can't give in to his desire to tell her. He hates hiding secrets from her, that's why he tells Haibara what he did about protecting her even if he doesn't have a place in her heart anymore, which is huge coming from the once totally egotistical Shinichi. He does call her often, and it's obvious that Ran calls him a lot as well. We don't always have to see it, but there are plenty of indications it's true. Ran calls him after she remembers the NY case and they discuss it, Shinichi sends her texts to comfort her, etc. He tries his best to make her happy even when he isn't there. In the Valentine's day case he accepts Ran's chocolate and lets her know as Shinichi that he did so she wouldn't be upset, in the White Day case he returned the chocolate to her, etc. He hasn't just ditched her and gone about his life like nothing's happened.

Valid points on the cheering up aspect, but in regards to the scene in 308...Shinichi is still the problem. Shinichi is his own problem, he's his own barrier. If some day his desire to tell her got so great, I have no doubt that he'd be capable of sitting down and truly weighing out the pros and cons. But Shinichi's problem is that he's trapped himself in the logic of "I can't let her know until the BO is gone or else she'll be in danger". What he hasn't told himself is that she's already in danger as it is, even if she doesn't know. It's kind of like a lie that he kept telling himself that it finally became "the truth".

Just to be clear, Shinichi is suffering just as much from his misconceptions as Ran is, but the difference is that Shinichi's problem is internal while Ran is suffering by extension of the lies he's telling himself. They're both victims of Shinichi's slowly skewed logic.

The reason Shinichi and Ran don't discuss their feelings is because neither wants to; they're too shy. Shinichi's confessed, despite that, and now he's waiting for her to return the confession. But this has obviously made things awkward between them, as expected from people their age. The next day, even though they're both in London, Shinichi and Ran don't want to see each other. Obviously, then, they're going to have problems communicating with each other via phone. To Ran's credit, she's tried twice to return the confession, but chickened out; Shinichi's hardly the one at fault here.

Except there's a tiny problem on Shinichi's side: he's known about Ran's feelings almost from the moment he turned into Conan. It's understandable for Ran to be skidding around the topic and to be nervous - she didn't know about Shinichi's feelings until he confessed. Conan/Shinichi on the other hand, has known from essentially the start of the series, and although some awkwardness could still be present, he has much less of an excuse to not at least say something like "Hey, I know that I'm gone a lot, but I want you to know that I miss you. Stay safe." Or something.

We don't have any evidence that Ran thinks that Shinchi is confiding in Shinichi more than her. Whenever Conan mentions Shinichi, it's in relation to a case, and Ran hardly cares about cases.

Point taken, though I personally would be a little curious about why he likes to contact the little kid before contacting me :x

I feel like you're overanalyzing every single thing Shinichi says, coming up with meanings that were not intended. Maybe Shinichi's statement in Desperate Revival would be abusive if Ran had doubts about her feelings for Shinichi, but that's obviously not the case.

Right before Conan says the words Ran cries and says she doesn't want to hear anymore excuses. I personally think a confession might have been better here, to be honest, rather than "wait for me". Like, I know that a confession through someone else wouldn't exactly be a great thing either...but it could have worked on a "Listen Ran, I like you and I'm actually Conan, but I can't tell you and I'm sorry but I can't". Like...he could have just said "Shinichi said to tell you...that he likes/loves you" and Ran could have seen in Conan's face that implicated message. ...Or something. It just doesn't sit right with me.

Shinichi/Conan said that to comfort Ran, to let her know that he doesn't intend to abandon her. It's an apology for how he constantly leaves her behind, every time. Look at Shinichi's pain when he's shrinking back to Conan in that same arc, before he goes to Ran. He's desperate and upset, because things will go back to normal and he still hasn't said anything to Ran. He doesn't want to go back to being "Conan." It's hard on him, just like it is on Ran. But to get back to the point- both the audience and Ran know that Ran only loves Shinichi and is not interested in anyone else. In that context, what Conan said has no underlying abusive qualities to it- Ran doesn't intend to back out, and what Conan said comforts her. That's all there is to it.

That kind of rides on what the reader thinks of the concept of "only loving one person", so I'll leave it at agreeing to disagree.

You're also interpreting Shinichi's specific confession words in an overly antagonistic way, and it's a discredit to how much thought Gosho plainly put into what words Shinichi would specifically say. They're meant to be a reflection of his character. Shinichi always thinks of things in terms of cases, so this was in character, but more specifically it's a callback to the NY case, the one where Ran first realized her feelings for Shinichi. Back in that case, when Shinichi comes to assist her in pulling Vermouth up, he calls her a 'troublesome case,' and there was no hostile content in his words then, either. Shinichi's confession symbolically refers back to that scene.

I know that it's not meant to be seen in a bad light, but that's kind of what makes it bad, to be honest. I know that it's a reflection of his character, but I think that referring to people as anything but people is kind of insulting? It might just be me, but I think that when you're confessing your feelings you should refer to them as a person and not a case :v

Now, despite all that, I agree with you on a few things, mostly centering on the London case. I agree that parts of it were mishandled, and Shinichi's thoughtless actions, though understandable, are inexcusable. Gosho didn't wrap it up as well as he could have. On the other hand, Ran called Shinichi out for what he did, demonstrating an awareness on Gosho's part that some of the stuff Shinichi does is really hurtful; based on that, I think Gosho will handle Ran's character well when she eventually finds out, if she hasn't already (based on strong hints recently that she suspects him). I would like to mention that while Shinichi was a bit insensitive to Ran while she was crying, the reason he was so concerned about this case was because it had the potential to end millions of lives, and we all know how Shinichi feels about that. With all that said, once Ran didn't 'calm down' Shinichi dropped the case completely and just confessed to her, and as far as we know did nor bring up the case again. Doesn't excuse him for his insensitivity, but it's something.

Valid points, but there's definitely still the fact that, although the problems were called out they were also just as easily dismissed. There wasn't any time given to actually deal with Ran's completely valid feelings of hurt and betrayal. I get that the series is mostly about cases and it probably didn't want to detract much from the action, but I still feel cheated out of an actual good, heart-to-heart conversation between Shinichi and Ran.

I don't think Shinichi will realize that he's unnecessarily hurting himself and Ran until she confronts him about it. It's a flaw of his, and I'm confident that Gosho will bring this up when the reveal comes. Why? Because unlike most people, I don't believe that Conan's a Gary Stu (but that's another argument, so I won't get into that), but more importantly because people don't give Gosho enough credit for calling out Shinichi on what he's done wrong. During the Ray Curtis case, Conan was obviously portrayed as being in denial, and Heiji yelled at him for being willingly dense. In the aftermath of the Mystery Train case, Gosho went out of his way to include a scene where Haibara rightfully yells at Conan for what he put her through on the train; Gosho did not pretend that she was a-ok with what transpired.

While the Ray Curtis case is a good example (also included in that earlier bracket I mentioned earlier), the Train example ended up played as a tsundere joke if I remember correctly which...isn't exactly the best way to deal with that. I'm glad that Haibara got mad, but her anger was treated more as a punchline than an actual legitimate issue.

With all that said, I'm glad you post here more often, Sonoci, your posts are always intelligent and bring some life to an otherwise pretty slow and inactive forum.

Hahah, why thank you :x Though I always write walls of text......

[Antiyonder]

Shinichi has definitely had some good moments, like when he told Haibara that he didn't want to see her cry, but my main issue is that Shinichi has seemed to have forgotten his own words. Not only with the Eisuke scene but also the London scene. It's just such a 180 from the same character that said "I never want to see her cry". I mean, for Gosho it makes sense for him to have maybe lost track of that line since it's been years, but for Shinichi to change that much in the comic time of a few months? It takes a toll on the story, and in a bad way.

Actually: http://www.dctp.ws/V72-Reader/V72-2Read/A3.html

So yeah, Gosho didn't forget the scene evidently. So I'm guessing again that he got caught up in the cool/cute/good moments at expense of Shinichi being selfless.

Valid points on the cheering up aspect, but in regards to the scene in 308...Shinichi is still the problem. Shinichi is his own problem, he's his own barrier. If some day his desire to tell her got so great, I have no doubt that he'd be capable of sitting down and truly weighing out the pros and cons. But Shinichi's problem is that he's trapped himself in the logic of "I can't let her know until the BO is gone or else she'll be in danger". What he hasn't told himself is that she's already in danger as it is, even if she doesn't know. It's kind of like a lie that he kept telling himself that it finally became "the truth".

Ok, time to plug "The Mystery of Conan Edogawa" into the discussion (which if you haven't read it yet, shame on you.), but in relation to what you're saying, the fanfic has Ran (who's hinting to Conan that she knows) relating how Sherlock Holmes once faked his death and allowed his own friend to believe him dead.

Her stance on him doing so?:

"There was some justification at first for Holmes to not tell Watson that he wasn't dead. He didn't know who was watching and he needed Watson to convincingly portray a man in mourning. The situation Holmes was in was an exceptional one so he was probably making up what to do as he went along. He deserved some leeway for that. But there is a certain point when an emergency stops being a justification and starts being an excuse to not do the hard thing."

And whether that's an intention flaw or just a byproduct of "status quo is god", this paragraph sums it up best. A necessary evil when adapting to the situation, but overtime the validity had worn thin.

[jason15]

I agree that Shinichi treats Ran really bad, and as a person who reads the story, when seeing Ran bear with Shinichi's heartless but didn't do anything to improve the situation, i understand that some of you might be angry with her sometimes because of her over-worship towards Shinichi, which might leads bad impression on Ran. But if i put myself into Ran's position, i can sympathy with her actions:

First of all, she loves him so much that she's willing to sacrifice to wait for him no matter what. In fact, love is the drug which can make people do crazy thing or become stupid somehow. But, with Ran's personality, i believe she can distinguish between love and rapidity. The reason why she keeps waiting and waiting and acting so foolish is because she trusts him.

Second, as we can see in the story, Shinichi worried whenever Ran in bad circumstances, Shinichi remembered to buy valentine's gift for her, Shinichi called Ran to calm her etc. These scenes reveal that Shinichi really cares about Ran, but he doesn't know how to show his true feeling, due to his lack of subtle in love. He only treated her badly when there were cases involved, and we all know that this guy is addicted to cases, so this can be acceptable.

Third, Ran understands Shinichi's addiction too well that she could be carefree about his apathetic, not to mention he still cares for her, so why should she abandon this relationship? From her point of view, Shinichi's not fooling around with some girls or going on a vacation. He is dealing with hard cases and he's doing this for everyone's sake, so she should be proud because her boyfriend is a good man.

Fourth,more than anyone else, she understands that she cannot just saying goodbye or revenging him for his apathetic, these just make both of them suffer a lot of pain. So why saying goodbye and then get hurt? Ran knows that if his big case was not solved, Shinichi's mind wouldn't be relaxed, so Ran choose to stay back and be his emotional support whenever he needed . Don't call her dumb,for me, this is a very intelligent step. Ran knows that if she wants Shinichi to come back soon, she shouldn't be the one who causes him more troubles by playing some stupid bossy action in love, but be the one who he can trust and admire. I mean, who else can wait for him that long? Who else can willing to be called stupid because of waiting for him? Who else can say good things for him despite his apathetic? We all know the answer.

So, IMO, there's no reason to dislike Ran. She's simple compared with others in DC, but she still play a big role. Please don't over-analyzing Ran's personality because that might cause people who don't read DC a really bad impression on her. I don't mean you can't expose your own thought, just don't be so serious.
Peace for everyone.

[Shiromi]

I don't think that many people actually dislike her. To me, it looks more like people dislike what Goushou's been doing with her character in order to stretch the story out and uphold the status quo. In my survey of DC fanfiction that I've been carrying out the past few months - there are hundreds of "Ran finds out and gets a more active role in the story again" fanfics. Most of the ShinRan romances I've read include that in them somewhere, and if they aren't ShinRan, it's because Ran is pissed at Shinichi for how he's treated her and decided to move on. So, my survey of public opinion on Ran shows not that people hate her, but they hate what's been done to her.

[kkslider5552000]

To me, it looks more like people dislike what Goushou's been doing with her character in order to stretch the story out and uphold the status quo.

This is basically my point summed up in a sentence.

[coolshiho2]

Thank you for a good piece of writing! I genuinely hated the Tori case as well, with Ran actually believing in the stupid fortune and only fighting back, finding out that it wasn't meant for her >_< (the case was boring, which didn't really help). I really really dislike her to be portrayed as a damsel in distress in almost all Movies, not to mention her animation in OPs and EDs and such always makes a negative connotation. I don't like her to be that obsessed with Shinichi either, strangely. How could she know he's the best for her without trying to date other boys? She avoids getting acquainted with other boys and she's not even married to Shinichi yet! That makes her so so unreal in this series, and I guess that's the reason Shinichi always takes her feelings for granted, which I dislike. Ran isn't an interesting characte, I agreed, (at least not by the definition that you would refer to Haibara or Sera), but I love her, and Gosho is making her image worse. Sexism, I think, is the right word.

I agree with you

[PhantomWriter]

To me, it looks more like people dislike what Goushou's been doing with her character in order to stretch the story out and uphold the status quo.

This is basically my point summed up in a sentence.

Agreed. Especially since it contradicts what was established about her character (she's perceptive, such as how she helped during the case with Akemi quite a lot, has solved a case on her own, and notices that Amuro is the one doing the deducing instead of Kogoro), it leaves a lot of sour tastes in one's mouth.

[Antiyonder]

@Sonoci Some of your points have merit, but overall I honestly think you're over-exaggerating the problem. Yes, Shinichi and Ran's relationship hasn't exactly been the best as of late, but that's mostly a consequence of how long DC has become, and how Gosho is prioritizing other things (cases, Black Organization, Sera, etc.) over the progress of their relationship at the moment.

I do believe that a lot of the problems are due to the length - for instance, up to Desperate Revival was definitely good stuff and many of the following moments were also good - but I think it's fair to say that length can't really excuse the extreme differences that started happening around episode 450 on (this is a very loose number as I haven't watched the show in quite some time). Case wise I think around the cell phone fiasco was when things kind of started to decline.

Agreed. And again, part of that goes back to the reasons in-universe of keeping his secret which in the story's earlier years had possible merit:

1. Now way back in the beginning, we don't know how far Gin & Vodka or others in the organization will go to cover their tracks. For all we know, they might have some policy against needlessly killing people who aren't a threat to them.

But then we see that they are willing to cover a 6 year old boy to conceal themselves, just for the fact that the boy is possibly connected to an enemy.

2. And of course, early on, the number of people who knew Conan's secret was fairly slim. But the more that anyone else finds out, it just lessens the validity of not letting Ran into the circle. Especially when one of the insiders (Eisuke) was flat out told of the fact, because of reasons of ego.

[kkslider5552000]

ironically, the original file name I had was "Ran is a stupid character". That was meant as a joke but the first things I wrote done were a bit needlessly mean before I mostly started over way later.

I am glad this worked out as well as it has. On most communities this would have broken down into needless arguments so I am happy this lead to well thought out and worthwhile discussion instead.

I'd like to make something else like this someday...