Why do people dislike Ran?

[kkslider5552000]

Sonoci and I actually found something resembling new ground to cover on this so I might as well use it.

Me: but anyway, I think it's ridiculous that we're supposed to believe in a relationship if they can't figure out the basics of communication. Unless there's some telepathy we've not been told about, this is not exactly ideal. Like talk to her, let her know what you feel and why and what you think of her or just...less important things. Sports or ask what's happening at Kogoro's place or make up some story about where you are. Just something, Shinichi! I mean they have each other's number right? Gosho got too invested in the tragic aspect not realizing no one could care after this long. But good relationships shouldn't be tragic I would assume...

Sonoci: As for tragic relationships, they only work as much as the audience wants to see them both happy and together. It really seems to rely on how believable it is to say "These two would be happiest with each other" and then the tragedy comes from the fact that they can't be together (for whatever reason).

The reason the ShinRan tragedy doesn't work is because of two reasons: 1) it's not that believable that Ran would be happiest with Shinichi (I'm not sure vice versa) and 2) the reasons that they "can't" be together are seriously flimsy at this point.

Ran has been manipulated and lied to by Shinichi this whole time essentially because he doesn't trust her. There's the filter saying "it's to protect her!" but it's been shown that it doesn't matter if she knows or not, she's in the same amount of danger as long as Conan stays at the agency...or even just interacts with her in general. As the series went on, it just got clearer and clearer that Shinichi not telling Ran wasn't because he didn't want her to be in danger - it was more that he thought she couldn't keep the secret. Heiji, Agasa, Ai, his parents...they're all fine to be in on it. Karate champion Ran? No way!

[usotsuki]

Something that would really shake up the dynamic, and something I probably WOULD write myself if I could write worth a damn - but would NEVER happen on Aoyama's watch - is to have Ran dump Shin'ichi.

[Antiyonder]

Ok, nothing new to add to the table, but as far as the discussion on whether Ran should permanently find out goes, I thought it might be handy to compile the cons and pros to evaluate the merit of said development.

I mean looking at things so far, I think the overall discussion demonstrates that this change should occur, but as someone who strongly veers on that stance I'll concede that Gosho might have some potential ideas left that we have yet to see.

That said, I'm looking at this from both a creative viewpoint and an in-universe standpoint. And not all of originated in the thread.

Getting the cons out of the way, mainly because only a few of them come to mind and there's some rebuttals which arguably make them moot:

Cons

Spoiler: compressed content

1. It will limit the potential for new stories and thus resulting in having to end the story: This I believe is the big reason why this particular change has yet to occur.

Now if there are some really substantial stories in the future that can't work with Ran in the know, then ok. But if it's something like the 5th, 6th, 7th and so on rehash of "Ran has stumbled onto Conan's secret, now he has to pull off a jerkish move to throw her off" or to have yet another moment where Shinichi and Ran end up in such an intimate situation, we've been down both roads before. So yeah lets try some growth.

Or looking at the standard cases that Conan solves as Kogoro, compared to the earliest episodes with this structure, Ran barely gets in the way of Conan nowadays that her being aware, wouldn't really hurt the formula that much or at all.

And really, the Pros section will hopefully demonstrate that the change will open up many new stories to compensate for any possible losses. Cause even with this change in the status quo, the show still won't end until the organization is found, and a permanent cure is found.

2. It would mess up the status quo for the movie going audiences in the films: It wouldn't be the first anime series with movies to do so, and it's not that complicating of a change. Especially with the opening which gives exposition for said audience.

3. Ran and Kogoro will be in danger: Basically the biggest reason in story, with the mindset that if the organization finds out who Shinichi is, they'll sort out who else knows said secret and kill them.

But, the manga/anime demonstrates that Gin or any other member would be more likely to kill someone connected to the target without taking the time to see if they are aware of the organization or not. More on this in Pros 5, though there's another thing to consider in this regard.

If anything, living with them is more likely to make them a potential target than whether they know his secret or not. And considering he has other means of getting a lead, such as the connections that his own father has, it means he doesn't have a valid reason for staying with Ran & Kogoro other than ego and status quo.

4. Ran would become a hindrance (i.e. trying to help out, only to get in the way) or that Conan will let his guard down around her and compromise his cover: Yes and no. One reason for no, I'll cover in the pros list, but another rebuttal to this is that it works both ways.

Lets look at Episode 522 for example. Shinichi has to make a getaway from Ran, Kogoro & Kazuha before he reverts back to Conan and barely avoids getting caught, while having to have another antidote. Then the next episode has him in the same situation, only on the highway with more people who would witness the transformation.

So, basically if Ran was in on the secret by Episode 522, she and Heiji would have stood a better chance at helping Shinichi to perserve his secret and maybe even negating the need to have that antidote.

Heck, look way back in Episode 10. For a quick recap, a girl came to the detective agency and was hoping to find Shinichi as she apparently is his girlfriend. (which was really her trying get his attention for help in finding a missing person).

So Ran and Conan goes with her, back to her home. Conan shortly after, hides in the bathroom to call this client as Shinichi. Needless to say, Ran thinks that Shinichi has been seeing this girl, and upon finding that he's actually in the house tries to enter the bathroom to corner him.

As such, Conan has to spend quite a bit of time dodging her, and soon after, running out to conceal his secret. So yeah, keeping her in dark is necessary to prevent her from becoming a hindrance indeed.

Pros

Spoiler: compressed content

1. Possible sexist vibes aside, in truth, a character like Ran isn't in of itself problematic, especially had the story been merely 100 episodes/20 volumes long. But in a series which spans over 600 episodes/70 volumes, a character like Ran who really doesn't do much in the long run, yet appears frequently could benefit from some big change.

Better in that working to uncover Conan's secret and having to cope with it would provide her with something to do other than being the "not" girlfriend who sits and waits for Shinichi (which the earliest of stories really didn't overdo to be fair and why her current depiction is problematic).

2. Now frankly it is harsh to insist she is dumb for not figuring it out. Mainly because unlike the fictional worlds in Marvel and DC Comics where such Sci-Fi aspects are more commonplace, a person getting smaller is a rarity in Conan's world.

Though it doesn't help that those who weren't as close to Shinichi figured it out. Not to mention that even when the suspicion returns/rises, she doesn't try much to cover her tracks and doesn't rework her plan of getting a confession out of him (i.e. getting the best possible evidence and backing him into a corner so much, that he won't have a way to throw her off).

Thus going all out until she gets the truth gives her back some much needed edge, not to mention taking Conan down a peg and helping to remove the Gary Stu vibes that he has.

3. Overall, the secrecy and the heartbreak/drama it causes towards Ran (especially in 193, 523 and 617) really hampers the healthy feeling that the relationship should have. So to have the story end without Shinichi telling her the truth would be too cold, even for him.

And to just end with him revealing the truth, only for her to brush it off as a minor annoyance would be cheap (don't much like how those particular fanfics pull that stunt).

Having the secret come out would allow for them to actually start mending their friendship and eventually resulting in a more healthy relationship when the series ends.

4. In line with the 4th Con, yeah I'm sure Ran would get in the way trying to help him, but that's what character development is for. Basically as the story goes on, Ran learns that Conan/Shinichi has to act alone or at least not with her all the time.

But on the other end of the spectrum, it gives Conan a chance for character growth in that sometimes he will need to swallow his pride and accept help from Ran (even asking her). Not to mention we get to see some additional struggle with Conan having to still keep up the act so that his secret isn't further compromised while allowing for moments where he slips.

5. As touched upon in the rebuttal to the 1st con, it's actually arguable whether keeping Ran (and even Kogoro) out of the loop keeps them safe. Episode 425 has Kogoro ending up nearly being killed despite the secrecy, and as we saw, Gin isn't going to go the honor route and spare anyone who is deemed harmless. So, telling them would actually give them a chance to better protect themselves.

Not to mention that, since then, we've seen many people finding out since then, only for nothing to come of it. And the more that others find out about it, keeping Ran out of this circle becomes more ridiculous.

Heck, he revealed himself to Eisuke for reasons of ego rather than out of practicality.

6. For a nice little bit of ironic tension, Ran would eventually find herself having to help maintain the secret that not too long ago she did her best to uncover.

7. If you still need more drama, well look no more. After all is said and done, even when Ran and Conan's friendship/relationship began to recover (with the secrets between them dealt with), they still can't exactly be together in the romantic sense. I mean, even with the fact that Conan is really 16/17, there's still a strong, physical age difference between them.

Even knowing that it's Shinichi, I can't imagine Ran being comfortable at getting physical with someone who looks like a 6/7 year old boy. Ergo, there's some legit tension in the form of Ran and Shinichi wanting to act on their feeling, but not being able to until a cure is found.

Overall the reasons not to make this change, contradict themselves for the most part (2nd con aside), but overall a weakness is found in all of them.

And so far the Pros demonstrates that there's more to gain than there is to lose. I mean the tension that comes with her knowing so far is real genuine tension that doesn't require a compromise in intelligence for the characters compared to the cheap stupid tension that comes with preserving the status quo.

So, anything I'm forgetting whether it's more cons/pros/rebuttals?


Edit: Modifying the first con.

[mamato]

Me: but anyway, I think it's ridiculous that we're supposed to believe in a relationship if they can't figure out the basics of communication. Unless there's some telepathy we've not been told about, this is not exactly ideal. Like talk to her, let her know what you feel and why and what you think of her or just...less important things. Sports or ask what's happening at Kogoro's place or make up some story about where you are. Just something, Shinichi! I mean they have each other's number right? Gosho got too invested in the tragic aspect not realizing no one could care after this long. But good relationships shouldn't be tragic I would assume...

I don't think you and Snoci know ( i think no) but Shinichi and Ran talk on the phone. Obiviously their can not be speak of person since Shinichi is Conan, and also Shinichi has no reason to ask to Ran how are since that he see her every day.

And also Shinichi and Ran do much more than communicate when their togheter and not, their are a incredibile harmony that don't have none couple in dc Canon and not. For example when togheter save Vermouth disguise in case new York. In that case both are agreed to save that person and without even talking to.

And then who said that Shinichi and Ran would not be happy together? Sorry but this is nonsense because in all the series is seen that Shinichi and Ran when are togheter are Happy, and also she cry when don't see he and he want returned adult only for her. If their are not happy together i don't think would do these things

Sorry for my english but even i want say my opinion^^

[Antiyonder]

For example when togheter save Vermouth disguise in case new York. In that case both are agreed to save that person and without even talking to.

Except this is before the whole Conan thing occurred and he had to go through lengths to deceive her.

I mean going with the end of The Desperate Revival or Episode 617 it just seems that the heartbreak on Ran's end if it keeps building up only makes their relationship look less happy and less healthy.

[n.hoangphu15]

For example when togheter save Vermouth disguise in case new York. In that case both are agreed to save that person and without even talking to.

Except this is before the whole Conan thing occurred and he had to go through lengths to deceive her.

I mean going with the end of The Desperate Revival or Episode 617 it just seems that the heartbreak on Ran's end if it keeps building up only makes their relationship look less happy and less healthy.

We all know that the Conan thing has occurred,but Shinichi's love towards Ran doesn't change, even just a little bit. He still cares about her, he confessed his feeling and he protects her no matter what. There relationship continue to grow stronger and stronger in each episodes.

[kkslider5552000]

For example when togheter save Vermouth disguise in case new York. In that case both are agreed to save that person and without even talking to.

Except this is before the whole Conan thing occurred and he had to go through lengths to deceive her.

I mean going with the end of The Desperate Revival or Episode 617 it just seems that the heartbreak on Ran's end if it keeps building up only makes their relationship look less happy and less healthy.

We all know that the Conan thing has occurred,but Shinichi's love towards Ran doesn't change, even just a little bit.

That doesn't contradict anything we've said. Just because you care about something doesn't mean your decisions aren't questionable.

[Antiyonder]

For example when togheter save Vermouth disguise in case new York. In that case both are agreed to save that person and without even talking to.

Except this is before the whole Conan thing occurred and he had to go through lengths to deceive her.

I mean going with the end of The Desperate Revival or Episode 617 it just seems that the heartbreak on Ran's end if it keeps building up only makes their relationship look less happy and less healthy.

We all know that the Conan thing has occurred,but Shinichi's love towards Ran doesn't change, even just a little bit. He still cares about her, he confessed his feeling and he protects her no matter what. There relationship continue to grow stronger and stronger in each episodes.

But part of the requirement for a healthy and strong relationship is honesty and trust. Which Shinichi isn't will to do, even though it's been demonstrated that her ignorance of the organization won't guarantee her to be safe. Just look at the post I made earlier on the page with the pros and cons of how being honest would be more helpful than problematic.

[n.hoangphu15]

For example when togheter save Vermouth disguise in case new York. In that case both are agreed to save that person and without even talking to.

Except this is before the whole Conan thing occurred and he had to go through lengths to deceive her.

I mean going with the end of The Desperate Revival or Episode 617 it just seems that the heartbreak on Ran's end if it keeps building up only makes their relationship look less happy and less healthy.

We all know that the Conan thing has occurred,but Shinichi's love towards Ran doesn't change, even just a little bit. He still cares about her, he confessed his feeling and he protects her no matter what. There relationship continue to grow stronger and stronger in each episodes.

But part of the requirement for a healthy and strong relationship is honesty and trust. Which Shinichi isn't will to do, even though it's been demonstrated that her ignorance of the organization won't guarantee her to be safe. Just look at the post I made earlier on the page with the pros and cons of how being honest would be more helpful than problematic.

I understand that lovers should not hide anything from each other, but I think Gosho has his own purpose of not letting Shinichi tell Ran the truth,we just have to wait and see. Gosho has creates a very loyalty and faithful couple so he must have plan in his mind. There are some lies build up on good purposes, and Shinichi's purpose is to keep Ran safe. He also doesn't want Ran to involve in dark things such as BO, he wants her to have a simple life, that's what lovers do for each other (of course we wouldn't want our bf/gf to have connection with bad people) There will be a time when Shinichi must tell Ran the truth, or maybe Ran will be the one discovers the truth ( there are many hints about this recently), and we need patient for that. We have been waiting for 20 years, so another few years wouldn't be a problem. Myself sometimes really wished Ran to know the truth and teach Shinichi some lesson, but i gave up my wish now because everything is controlled by Gosho, i just have to keep reading the story till the very end.

[Antiyonder]

Gosho has creates a very loyalty and faithful couple so he must have plan in his mind.

And I've considered that, hence why I compiled the cons and pros of allowing for said development to occur. Does he have an actual new story down the line that requires preventing said development, or is it another rehash of what's happened so far?

There are some lies build up on good purposes, and Shinichi's purpose is to keep Ran safe.

True, but again, Episode 425 demonstrates that keeping her in the dark won't necessarily keep her safe.

He also doesn't want Ran to involve in dark things such as BO, he wants her to have a simple life, that's what lovers do for each other (of course we wouldn't want our bf/gf to have connection with bad people).

Then it would be for the best if he moved out and put some distance between Ran and himself. Now perhaps early on it was necessary to live with her given that Kogoro was the best chance that Shinichi had at finding the organization, but since then a couple other options have opened to him:
A. His father, who aside from being in on the secret has connections with Interpol.
B. Heiji, who not only is in on the secret, but is more capable than Kogoro is.

[mamato]

I understand that lovers should not hide anything from each other, but I think Gosho has his own purpose of not letting Shinichi tell Ran the truth,we just have to wait and see. Gosho has creates a very loyalty and faithful couple so he must have plan in his mind. There are some lies build up on good purposes, and Shinichi's purpose is to keep Ran safe. He also doesn't want Ran to involve in dark things such as BO, he wants her to have a simple life, that's what lovers do for each other (of course we wouldn't want our bf/gf to have connection with bad people) There will be a time when Shinichi must tell Ran the truth, or maybe Ran will be the one discovers the truth ( there are many hints about this recently), and we need patient for that. We have been waiting for 20 years, so another few years wouldn't be a problem. Myself sometimes really wished Ran to know the truth and teach Shinichi some lesson, but i gave up my wish now because everything is controlled by Gosho, i just have to keep reading the story till the very end.

I agree 100%!!

[sonoci]

Something that would really shake up the dynamic, and something I probably WOULD write myself if I could write worth a damn - but would NEVER happen on Aoyama's watch - is to have Ran dump Shin'ichi.

To be honest, this idea is one of the most interesting and could actually (ironically) be the one to best boost ShinRan back to actual healthy levels. If Ran were to dump Shinichi, he might realize just exactly how he's been treating her and might step up his game to treat her with respect and as a person rather than simply his 'protectee'.

Because I need to stress this again and again: Ran and Shinichi's relationship is NOT healthy. To be honest, Ran is stuck in a pretty emotionally abusive spot right now...especially with Shinichi's confession.

Now, before people get on my back like "What?! Abusive!? Shinichi would never do that!", I have to say that yes, he wouldn't do that willingly. ...But the fact is that he is unknowingly abusive. As long as his lies stand strong and nothing bad happens he - along with the audience, as demonstrated by the very same cries of "he's not abusive" - will believe that he didn't do anything wrong. But the thing is, he IS and he needs something to come along and show him that's he's in the wrong. Ran dumping him would be the perfect event to not only accomplish this, but to leave a big impact without any deaths.

I do understand that it's really hard to step back from all the "cute" and "loyal" and "good" moments to see the underlying horrific implications - I myself was caught up in the romanticizing of it all - but that's what makes this relationship so scary. Yes, Shinichi believes that what he's doing is for Ran's benefit, but he - along with some of audience reading - refuse to acknowledge the facts that point out why what he's doing is wrong. People don't like to think they're wrong, and they'll stay in denial for a long, LONG time which will just serve to make things worse - this is what Shinichi is doing right now. All of those pros and cons that Antiyonder listed? No matter how logical Shinichi is, he would NEVER sit down and think about those pros and cons. He's so stuck thinking "I'm protecting Ran!" that he can't see that she's in the same amount of danger regardless. Ran is also caught up in the romanticizing - Shinichi confessing to her suddenly made everything all right? How exactly did that work?

No, seriously, please think about the confession scene for a moment and ask the question: did Shinichi actually resolve the valid argument that Ran had against him?

We have to step back from Shinichi's perspective here for a second, we have to forget the fact that he's there as Conan. These facts seem to "justify" things from Shinichi's standpoint, but Ran does not have these justifications, so we have to consider that.

From Ran's perspective, Shinichi has been gone for months upon months, only showing up rarely and usually only briefly. He also tends to avoid her when he does show up, never explaining where he's been in full detail, leaving her in the dark. Oftentimes, rather than even directly talking to her, he speaks through a third-party: Conan (REMEMBER, Ran's perspective, she doesn't know). To make the Conan matter worse, from Ran's view, she's known Shinichi since they were children and she is pretty much an adult, and yet Shinichi seems to be closer to this seven-year-old kid. We know why Conan is in such close contact with Shinichi - since they're the same person - but to Ran it appears that Shinichi is confiding in a seven-year-old kid more than he's confiding in her.

Add to that the London situation where Shinichi is proven to be in London at the same time as Ran and she gets angry that he's there without telling her. Y'know, the first time I saw Ran getting angry at this part, I thought she was over-reacting - but now I look back and am TERRIFIED that I thought that because she is completely and utterly justified in being angry at him. To her, he knew that she was going to be going to London at the same time that he himself was going to be in London. To her, he chose not to tell her that they'd be in the same place. To her, he knowingly made the decision to avoid her even though it was a rare moment they were in the same spot after all of the time of them being separated. For all of this to be from the guy who apparently said he would die to come back to her, it's just too much. To make matters worse, when she runs into him, he acts annoyed and ignores her when matters of the case are brought up.

This London situation is basically the opposite of the Desperate Revival case, and seriously? That's horrible. Desperate Revival was a MUCH better example of a confession place and of Ran/Shinichi's relationship actually being healthy. Please compare the two scenes:

DESPERATE REVIVAL:

• Shinichi specifically invites Ran on a date with the intentions of confessing, to the place where his parents got engaged no less
• He has normal, fun, somewhat random/bickery conversations with her. He lets himself relax
• MOST IMPORTANTLY: when there are screams and the murder happens, Shinichi stays in his spot. He puts Ran first, if a little reluctantly with his curiosity about the case. This is HUGE on Shinichi's part.
• The only reason he leaves is because Ran tells him to. She waits in this situation of her own volition. This is one rare scenario where she chooses to wait.
• Unfortunately, it ends with Shinichi forcing Ran to wait again, which I think kind of starts off the underlying abuse. I'll get to this after the London list.

LONDON (mostly from Ran's perspective):

• Shinichi is supposedly there by chance in Ran's perspective and he decided not to tell her, basically avoiding her
• He outright RAN AWAY from her when she gave chase
• A very important point is this page. Read it, look at Ran's reaction, and tell me that she isn't feeling completely hurt and betrayed.
• The page following is just as important. Remember how Shinichi said "I don't want to see her cry, even if that means I'm not in her heart anymore"? SO HOW COME HE COMPLETELY IGNORES HER TEARS RIGHT HERE AND EVEN TELLS HER TO "CALM DOWN"? I'm really sorry for CAPS, but this is just such an insensitive moment that it seriously fills me with rage.
• To add to the last point, Shinichi puts the case first, not Ran.

As for the abusive language from Desperate Revival, please consider what Shinichi said: "I'll return to you, even if I die". Now, on the outside it just seems like a big statement of commitment, but think about the spot that those words put Ran in. Shinichi basically tells her that he'll get back to her or die trying. ...Does that seem to leave the option open for her to not take him back? ...It doesn't really, because if she decided not to have anything to do with him anymore, that would be a slap to his "dedication" even though she's perfectly justified in looking for a different romantic partner. Those words that Shinichi says at the end of Desperate Revival put Ran on the spot - how can someone say "no" to someone saying they'll DIE to get back to them? It forces her to wait.

And worse is the confession in London. When Ran decides she DOESN'T want to wait anymore, what does Shinichi do? He runs after her, tells her to wait, forcibly grabs her arm, calls her troublesome, dismisses her emotions as "distracting" and dismisses her status as a person by CALLING HER A CASE. As for his "confession", I think I have an answer - "The heart of a woman whom one likes...how can someone accurately deduce that?" ...Oh, I don't know, why don't you ask her about it? Why don't you talk to her about it?

The only similarity between Desperate Revival and London are the ending encounters where Shinichi puts a hold on Ran. The first time she can't exactly back out when he says he'll DIE for her, the second time she can't exactly back out because she feels pressured by the fact that he confessed.

Please note that my question was never answered: did Shinichi actually resolve the valid argument that Ran had against him? To put it shortly, no.

She was hurt and betrayed by his actions and rather than explain himself or talk about the problems in order to come to some sort of compromise, he simply confesses to put Ran on the spot and basically dismisses her valid complaints by implying "Well hey, I'm in love with you so none of that matters"

...no Shinichi. No. That's not how it works.

I actually went to look at some of the London chapters and I found this gem:
Agasa: But you'll make Ran-kun worry like this...
Conan: It's okay! Since we'll return to the hotel by the time they finish their meal!

.................SHINICHI THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT SHE WON'T BE WORRIED YOU BRAT

[Antiyonder]

^^^See, I've been agreeing myself that their relationship has been unhealthy and even I didn't think it was that bad. So, yeah, well spoken.

And really, I'll admit that I'm half expecting that Shinichi will confess things to Ran regarding Conan.

But what I'm really wondering is if Gosho will address the unpleasant aspects of his secrecy, or is he too caught up in the loyal/cute/good moments himself and is more likely to overlook things for the happy ending?

After all, considering how people like sonoci or even myself got taken in by the cute moments, I have to wonder if we're suppose to look down on Shinichi for his mistakes or if the narrative believes it all to be a necessary evil that needs to be overlooked.

[sonoci]

But what I'm really wondering is if Gosho will address the unpleasant aspects of his secrecy, or is he too caught up in the loyal/cute/good moments himself and is more likely to overlook things for the happy ending?

After all, considering how people like sonoci or even myself got taken in by the cute moments, I have to wonder if we're suppose to look down on Shinichi for his mistakes or if the narrative believes it all to be a necessary evil that needs to be overlooked.

Considering the portrayal of Shinichi, I doubt Gosho will address the unpleasant aspects of the relationship...in fact, I don't think he's aware of it at all. Considering there hasn't been anything yet to point out that what Shinichi is doing is wrong, I don't think Gosho's going on that route.

It's interesting that I'm a DC fan but also got into a series called The World God Only Knows, because there's something very similar in that series. I will limit myself to the skeleton of the matter because I don't want to spoil things, but basically what the main character in TWGOK does at the beginning (and throughout the series) is actually really manipulative and wrong, even if he's doing it for good reasons. At a later point in the series, he starts to realize this and see just exactly what it is he's doing. It's tragic though because he HAS to keep doing it, even though he knows it's wrong. It eventually gets to the point where he says "I've had enough. I can't go on like this anymore". ...The only thing that sucks is that because I've been treated to that excellent story path in TWGOK, now my DC experience has been soured.

All I can think is "Why isn't Shinichi going down that route of development? It's fantastic character development and he's basically in the same situation!"

Anyway, I think the short answer is that no, we're not supposed to look down on Shinichi. Far from it: Shinichi is held up as essentially a pure example of the strong-hearted, brave, intelligent Gary Stu. Now, if his mistakes and evils had light shed on them, Shinichi would become a FANTASTIC character. If he worked to overcome those wrongs and become a truly better person ... just WOW would that be a good character arc, and a good role model for the millions that follow this series.

...Unfortunately, I doubt such a thing will happen

[Antiyonder]

But what I'm really wondering is if Gosho will address the unpleasant aspects of his secrecy, or is he too caught up in the loyal/cute/good moments himself and is more likely to overlook things for the happy ending?

After all, considering how people like sonoci or even myself got taken in by the cute moments, I have to wonder if we're suppose to look down on Shinichi for his mistakes or if the narrative believes it all to be a necessary evil that needs to be overlooked.

Considering the portrayal of Shinichi, I doubt Gosho will address the unpleasant aspects of the relationship...in fact, I don't think he's aware of it at all. Considering there hasn't been anything yet to point out that what Shinichi is doing is wrong, I don't think Gosho's going on that route.

It's interesting that I'm a DC fan but also got into a series called The World God Only Knows, because there's something very similar in that series. I will limit myself to the skeleton of the matter because I don't want to spoil things, but basically what the main character in TWGOK does at the beginning (and throughout the series) is actually really manipulative and wrong, even if he's doing it for good reasons. At a later point in the series, he starts to realize this and see just exactly what it is he's doing. It's tragic though because he HAS to keep doing it, even though he knows it's wrong. It eventually gets to the point where he says "I've had enough. I can't go on like this anymore". ...The only thing that sucks is that because I've been treated to that excellent story path in TWGOK, now my DC experience has been soured.

All I can think is "Why isn't Shinichi going down that route of development? It's fantastic character development and he's basically in the same situation!"

Anyway, I think the short answer is that no, we're not supposed to look down on Shinichi. Far from it: Shinichi is held up as essentially a pure example of the strong-hearted, brave, intelligent Gary Stu. Now, if his mistakes and evils had light shed on them, Shinichi would become a FANTASTIC character. If he worked to overcome those wrongs and become a truly better person ... just WOW would that be a good character arc, and a good role model for the millions that follow this series.

...Unfortunately, I doubt such a thing will happen

1. True. And I think the only thing that makes it worse is that frankly, the only true reason why Conan can't come clean or Ran doesn't permanently find out herself is probably because Gosho thinks that the story potential or drama will be decreased when I and even you already demonstrated how there's more potential material.

As we've already mentioned, there's tension in the form of Ran being able to confront Shinichi for keeping her in the dark for so long.

And even if/when they manage to rebuild their friendship, they still couldn't be together until Conan is cured. I mean lets face it. Even if they were in a healthier place, and the secrets were behind them, I'd think there would be tension in the form of them being them having strong feelings for each other and yet the physical age different would prevent them from being able to act on their feelings. Cause even if Conan is really 16/17, I'd think Ran would be uneasy about being physically intimate with someone who has the body of a kid.

Like some of my previous points, that's real drama. It's real because it doesn't involve the characters being idiots, and there's no quick fix to the problem.

2. I'll edit this and my first point in shortly, but another rebuttal to the idea of the "Ran would be a hindrance" argument. For those who remember Episode 10, basically Ran suspects that Shinichi is having a relationship with a client that approached Kogoro and thus is pissed.

And that comes into play when the client calls Shinichi, who Ran discovers is in the building. Quite a bit of time is then spent with Shinichi having to keep Ran from entering the bathroom, and then running from her.

Yeah, keeping her in the dark so that she wouldn't be a hindrance really worked out well for you dude.