Detective Conan 701-704 (The Jet-Black Mystery Train) Discussion Thread

[Wakarimashita]

I think 345 is -by far- the most overrated Conan episode/case, but I'd still put it above this pile of mediocrity.

^ This.

The 176-178 case is far better than both.

I love that case even though I did have a few minor issues with parts of it.

1. The Bo could have easily handled both Ai and the Murder, if they simply let Vermouth handle the murder whiles Pisco handled Sherry. With Pisco and Vermouth there it made no sense to put Pisco in charge of killing both Sherry and the guy they were assassinating.

2. Conan casually announces his name in front of Pisco,after his deduction, even though he had no way of knowing Pisco wouldn't tell anyone about him, or harm his friends. It just didn't make sense to me at the time, unless Conan knew Gin would somehow kill Pisco. Even if he was banking on him getting arrested, he could have easily communicated the name "Edowgawa Conan" to Gin,Vodka or Vermouth.

There are always a few things like that that one might call inconsistencies in the BO cases but 176-178 overall felt much less stupid than the rubbish that is 704. Plus, in terms of atmosphere, animation, soundtrack, tension, directing, there's just no comparaison possible, 176-178 trumps 704 in every single way possible.

[DetectiveKir]

^ I guess our opinions differ greatly then. I definitely think the tension, mind games, story, and the case in mystery train surpassed Reunion with the Bo. And I think mystery train was anything but Rubbish, definitely a top 3 bo special/arc to me. But Reunion is probably my third favorite Bo arc so I can't really say anything bad about it lol.

I think Animation wise and Music Wise are the advantages Reunion has over MT.

[Puto]

And hype. Kinda.

[Akai Shuuichi]

There are always a few things like that that one might call inconsistencies in the BO cases but 176-178 overall felt much less stupid than the rubbish that is 704. Plus, in terms of atmosphere, animation, soundtrack, tension, directing, there's just no comparaison possible, 176-178 trumps 704 in every single way possible.

I wouldn't really say 'rubbish', I'd say it wasn't up to every expectation, especially for manga readers, I wonder what didn't you like about the animation and directing.. I agree about the soundtrack and tension part, atmosphere was so-so, on a scale of hundred, top 5 Bo related episodes - 581,718 90% - 345 85% - 504/704 75%. I think many would disagree though.

[Wakarimashita]

There are always a few things like that that one might call inconsistencies in the BO cases but 176-178 overall felt much less stupid than the rubbish that is 704. Plus, in terms of atmosphere, animation, soundtrack, tension, directing, there's just no comparaison possible, 176-178 trumps 704 in every single way possible.

I wouldn't really say 'rubbish', I'd say it wasn't up to every expectation, especially for manga readers, I wonder what didn't you like about the animation and directing.. I agree about the soundtrack and tension part, atmosphere was so-so, on a scale of hundred, top 5 Bo related episodes - 581,718 90% - 345 85% - 504/704 75%. I think many would disagree though.

I don't like the modern animation compared to the old one but even without taking that into account the animation in 704 was very subpar especially in the 2nd part. Sherry was basically drawn with gloves, that's the only solution I can see. In terms of directing, I can only see one convincing scene : the one involving Yukiko screaming Ai-chaan. The rest is pretty mediocre and it's sad because directing is very important in building tension which was sorely lacking. Just an exemple : the 'Akai in the smoke scene' was pretty awful in terms of adaptation, same goes for the ending when Okiya opens his eye. It's too quick, there's no build up and no music either.

In terms of rating BO cases/specials, here's how I'd go :
176-178 : 99%
128 - 95%
345 - 85%
425 - 75%
504 - 70%
704 - 50%
581 - 30%

[Akai Shuuichi]

There are always a few things like that that one might call inconsistencies in the BO cases but 176-178 overall felt much less stupid than the rubbish that is 704. Plus, in terms of atmosphere, animation, soundtrack, tension, directing, there's just no comparaison possible, 176-178 trumps 704 in every single way possible.

I wouldn't really say 'rubbish', I'd say it wasn't up to every expectation, especially for manga readers, I wonder what didn't you like about the animation and directing.. I agree about the soundtrack and tension part, atmosphere was so-so, on a scale of hundred, top 5 Bo related episodes - 581,718 90% - 345 85% - 504/704 75%. I think many would disagree though.

I don't like the modern animation compared to the old one but even without taking that into account the animation in 704 was very subpar especially in the 2nd part. Sherry was basically drawn with gloves, that's the only solution I can see. In terms of directing, I can only see one convincing scene : the one involving Yukiko screaming Ai-chaan. The rest is pretty mediocre and it's sad because directing is very important in building tension which was sorely lacking. Just an exemple : the 'Akai in the smoke scene' was pretty awful in terms of adaptation, same goes for the ending when Okiya opens his eye. It's too quick, there's no build up and no music either.

In terms of rating BO cases/specials, here's how I'd go :
176-178 : 99%
128 - 95%
345 - 85%
425 - 75%
504 - 70%
704 - 50%
581 - 30%

I strongly agree with what I've italicized. No comments on ur list .
Edit. Bold-ed

[dilbertschalter]

The plot threads that led Haibara and Gin to the roof of Haido City Hotel are in my opinion not that much sturdier than those that set up the Mystery Train arc*- the difference is in the confrontation. The genre savvy viewer knows, in both cases, that no harm will befall Haibara, but there is no dramatic tension in 704 because no point does anyone directly threaten her life (unless you count Vermouth making scary faces as Scar Akai). Vermouth has bloodthirsty intentions, but what we get is a showdown with Bourbon that is devoid of intensity and emotion on both sides. We soon learn that there's a logical plot reason for Haibara's mellowness, but that doesn't undo the lameness that took place.

*This is sort of unfair to 178, but my main point is that the issue with Mystery Train isn't plot plausibility or the like, it's that we don't get the juicy red meat that encounters with the BO should produce.

[Wakarimashita]

That's true as well. And let's be real, Bourbon is rather flat as a character. He just doesn't compare with Gin.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

i am agreeing.. did the latest episodes just made Akai more awesome than bourbon..

[Akai Shuuichi]

It's always been the case =P.

[Pmofmalasia]

\what we get is a showdown with Bourbon that is devoid of intensity and emotion on both sides. We soon learn that there's a logical plot reason for Haibara's mellowness, but that doesn't undo the lameness that took place.\

I think Haibara would have acted the same way both if it had been Gin and if it had actually been her. Look at 178, she keeps the same stoic attitude throughout her encounter with Gin. The only difference between Gin and Bourbon is that Haibara really doesn't have as much of a personal connection as she does with Gin. So in that way I do agree with you.

2. Conan casually announces his name in front of Pisco,after his deduction, even though he had no way of knowing Pisco wouldn't tell anyone about him, or harm his friends. It just didn't make sense to me at the time, unless Conan knew Gin would somehow kill Pisco. Even if he was banking on him getting arrested, he could have easily communicated the name "Edowgawa Conan" to Gin,Vodka or Vermouth.

I think with the BO's resources simply making his appearance known is enough for them to find him. Guess he just wanted to save them the trouble

[kkslider5552000]

That's true as well. And let's be real, Bourbon is rather flat as a character. He just doesn't compare with Gin.

True. I think the idea is that being Bourbon means he's allowed to be less interesting a character. Honestly as long as his true self ends up interesting eventually or that he's interesting from a story perspective...I can't necessarily disagree with that logic. If Sera and the pointless one have to carry things from a character perspective, it can still work pretty easily.

I do completely agree with the pacing issues of the last episode, despite being mostly distracted by unexpected reveals. If only they didn't try to put it in only 4 episodes.

I do tend to prefer slooooow pacing if interesting stuff is happening. Let's people soak in every detail.

[Akai Shuuichi]

This ^.

[DetectiveKir]

I don't think Bourbon is flat as a character, in comparison to Gin, I think he's just less of a sociopath. Also, if you look at Bourbon in comparision to Vermouth/Gin he doesn't seem to have the hatred of Sherry as both of them do. So during their respective confrontations, unlike Gin/Vermouth, he had no intention of killing her, he was simply going to take her in alive. He's different then them because most of his hatred seems to be focused on Akai, rather than Sherry the traitor. Where he really shines as a character is in his detective skills, because all the great detectives of the series, are usally on Conan's side, but Bourbon's really the first to be an enemy.

Bourbon's real moments to shine plot wise, will be when Akai is forced to reveal himself or gets discovered.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I don't think Bourbon is flat as a character, in comparison to Gin, I think he's just less of a sociopath. Also, if you look at Bourbon in comparision to Vermouth/Gin he doesn't seem to have the hatred of Sherry as both of them do. So during their respective confrontations, unlike Gin/Vermouth, he had no intention of killing her, he was simply going to take her in alive. He's different then them because most of his hatred seems to be focused on Akai, rather than Sherry the traitor. Where he really shines as a character is in his detective skills, because all the great detectives of the series, are usally on Conan's side, but Bourbon's really the first to be an enemy.

Bourbon's real moments to shine plot wise, will be when Akai is forced to reveal himself or gets discovered.

^