Why do people dislike Ran?

[jason15]

^^^Yes we get that he's in love, but having him act in such a manner without addressing it feels like a cheat.

As you said, "he has to do what a man has to do". That means coming to term with his less desirable traits and trying to grow from them.

In truth, if this relationship is to be a happy and healthy one at the end, then whether it's being selfish in general concerning his feelings for Ran (as well as the possibility that staying under her and Kogoro's roof makes them a target whether they're in on the secret or not*) or just keeping her in the dark, these flaws need to be dealt with in an honest manner rather than glossed just because it's done in the service of love (and part of love does mean to put your partner first, even if it's easier to do otherwise).

*And again, given how Gin was prepared to kill a 7 year old boy just to cover his tracks, whether said kid knows about The Organization or not, then it's not unlikely that they would kill Kogoro or Ran just because they are in the company of Shinichi (even if it's clear that they have no knowledge of the truth).

Then we have to wait for Gosho to give us the answer. I'm not really satisfied with the way Shinichi acts towards Ran. I can't feel any of Shinichi's love. His love so far is nothing compared with Heiji towards Kazuha. It's quite annoyed.
I mean if you're intending to create a main couple in a whole long story, then you have to put some spice in their relationship. It took 72 volumes for a confession, and then nothing more =.=. Others like Hei-Ka, Takagi-Sato ect have development, but not the main couple. I'm a Shin-Ran but i have to admit their relationship is becoming way too boring which make me angry somehow. I hope Gosho can work out the problem, otherwise, the golden couple might melt at anytime soon. Audiences are getting bored.

[Antiyonder]

^^^Yeah it's boring, but as others brought up in the thread, the greater problem is them getting together in the end without dealing with the more unhealthy vibes to the relationship.

Anyway, responding to Citan's post again, there's the aforementioned matter of how both Ran & Kogoro would more than likely be killed for harboring Conan without being investigated on how much/little they know.

Now considering the premise was to be in the company of a detective early on, okay Kogoro was maybe his best lead. Still means he's putting them in danger, but arguably not much choice.

For whatever reason though, Agasa decides that it's okay to bring Yukiko and Yusaku into the fold, but okay they are good at acting, plus the latter of the two has friends in Interpol that he could approach on The Organization.

Plus he has Heiji, another detective, who's in the know. Then there's the FBI.

So yeah, while there's no foolproof safe method of getting a lead, he does have alternatives nowadays to Kogoro.

Thus he either needs to cut ties with them or having to let them in on the secret (though even if the status quo is shaken up more, the approach would likely be one Mouri at a time).

[usotsuki]

If I were writing, I'd probably start to change the dynamics of the Shin'ichi/Ran relationship in a different way - have Ran find out, then basically be like, "I'll get to the bottom of things...not for your sake, but for Ai-chan's". and prolly hook her up with someone else.

[n.hoangphu15]

If I were writing, I'd probably start to change the dynamics of the Shin'ichi/Ran relationship in a different way - have Ran find out, then basically be like, "I'll get to the bottom of things...not for your sake, but for Ai-chan's". and prolly hook her up with someone else.

i don't want to disappoint you but i think this is the weirdest thing ever, not to mention, a little ridiculous
but don't take this seriously, just my opinion

[usotsuki]

That's why I'm a failed writer.

[saorin]

Sound point. Granted, the pic isn't showing for me (I looked up the page in question in my copy of the manga), so if anyone can't see the pic in question, the chapter isn't too long after the Valentine's arc where Shinichi had Ran's homemade chocolate. When asked by Haibara and Agasa as to why he hasn't thanked Ran for it:

Spoiler:

Conan brings up how she has been pretty loyal to the jerk who avoids her all the time, and that if he was much nicer to her as Shinichi, it would only make his absence much harder. As such, by his decision to be distant, she might be more inclined to move on and find happiness even if it's without him. Sure he's still making a decision for her, but it's about putting Ran's possible happiness above his own, rather than making decisions for his own benefit.

As it stands, his dealing with Eisuke could work if it was being played up as a flaw that Shinichi would have to cope with. But unless Gosho is planning to do something about it, he could have easily just tied up that loose end with Conan accepting that he has to let Ran move on, only for Ran herself to politely turn down Eisuke. In fact having Ran make the decision works on several levels as it means that we don't have Shinichi going back on the decision to let her move on, plus it would show trust on his part, which some have said is lacking on both sides of the relationship. Heck:

Spoiler:

Forgetting the selfishness of telling Eisuke off, Shinichi himself acknowledged how loyal Ran was to a man being distant, yet he doesn't seem to stick by that faith.

And really, it's not even a case where you can argue that Gosho probably forgot his selfless declaration. As seen in the second chapter of Volume 72:

Spoiler:

Upon Conan mentioning his confession at London, Haibara actually does bring up his claim of wanting to be distant in hopes of her moving on.

Thanks for clarifying. I can see the page with the picture in it, so I didn't know some wouldn't be able to. Very kind of you to summarize it again, thank you.

You are very right in bringing up the point that he could have shown his trust in Ran's promise to wait, if he had just told Eisuke to go on and ask her. It would, in fact, have worked much more nicely altogether. It would have worked much better that way. Shinichi (grudgingly) accepting the prospect of letting Ran go, Eisuke asking Ran, Ran turning him down, Shinichi being relieved and having his trust in Ran renewed. Heck, why didn't it happen this way? -.-
True, the London thing is actually also moving in the "wrong" direction, taken the "chivalrous" speech he gave. One could probably explain part of it with the strained situation, the whim of the moment...
It would only then work really well if this is slowly moving towards Shinichi accepting the prospect of letting Ran in on his secret.

I hope so much that Ran's constant strains and obstacles will be somehow adressed in the end, when the relationship is established for "real". God, honestly... please!


Well, I guess Gosho just lacks in these parts of writing the amount of talent he sports in mystery writing...

[shinranlover]

Sound point. Granted, the pic isn't showing for me (I looked up the page in question in my copy of the manga), so if anyone can't see the pic in question, the chapter isn't too long after the Valentine's arc where Shinichi had Ran's homemade chocolate. When asked by Haibara and Agasa as to why he hasn't thanked Ran for it:

Spoiler:

Conan brings up how she has been pretty loyal to the jerk who avoids her all the time, and that if he was much nicer to her as Shinichi, it would only make his absence much harder. As such, by his decision to be distant, she might be more inclined to move on and find happiness even if it's without him. Sure he's still making a decision for her, but it's about putting Ran's possible happiness above his own, rather than making decisions for his own benefit.

As it stands, his dealing with Eisuke could work if it was being played up as a flaw that Shinichi would have to cope with. But unless Gosho is planning to do something about it, he could have easily just tied up that loose end with Conan accepting that he has to let Ran move on, only for Ran herself to politely turn down Eisuke. In fact having Ran make the decision works on several levels as it means that we don't have Shinichi going back on the decision to let her move on, plus it would show trust on his part, which some have said is lacking on both sides of the relationship. Heck:

Spoiler:

Forgetting the selfishness of telling Eisuke off, Shinichi himself acknowledged how loyal Ran was to a man being distant, yet he doesn't seem to stick by that faith.

And really, it's not even a case where you can argue that Gosho probably forgot his selfless declaration. As seen in the second chapter of Volume 72:

Spoiler:

Upon Conan mentioning his confession at London, Haibara actually does bring up his claim of wanting to be distant in hopes of her moving on.

Thanks for clarifying. I can see the page with the picture in it, so I didn't know some wouldn't be able to. Very kind of you to summarize it again, thank you.

You are very right in bringing up the point that he could have shown his trust in Ran's promise to wait, if he had just told Eisuke to go on and ask her. It would, in fact, have worked much more nicely altogether. It would have worked much better that way. Shinichi (grudgingly) accepting the prospect of letting Ran go, Eisuke asking Ran, Ran turning him down, Shinichi being relieved and having his trust in Ran renewed. Heck, why didn't it happen this way? -.-
True, the London thing is actually also moving in the "wrong" direction, taken the "chivalrous" speech he gave. One could probably explain part of it with the strained situation, the whim of the moment...
It would only then work really well if this is slowly moving towards Shinichi accepting the prospect of letting Ran in on his secret.

I hope so much that Ran's constant strains and obstacles will be somehow adressed in the end, when the relationship is established for "real". God, honestly... please!


Well, I guess Gosho just lacks in these parts of writing the amount of talent he sports in mystery writing...

In DC when eisuke wanted to confess to Ran, he was asking Conan if Conan knew a way to contact Shinichi because Eisuke want to ask permission from Shinichi first, and because Conan is Shinichi, so when Shinichi heard Eisuke want to ask for his permission, he imediately answer NO for Eisuke's confession. I think because Eisuke wanted to be polite, to ask Shinichi first to see whether he can confess to Ran, that explain why Shinichi doesnt let Eisuke confess, because Eisuke asked for permission first

[Antiyonder]

^^^Shinichi's only answer should have been "It's up to Ran to decide who she wants to be with.".

I think it's a safe bet she'd turn him down.

And really, unless Gosho is setting up Shinichi with an intended flaw, then this outcome would have been better.

[saorin]

In DC when eisuke wanted to confess to Ran, he was asking Conan if Conan knew a way to contact Shinichi because Eisuke want to ask permission from Shinichi first, and because Conan is Shinichi, so when Shinichi heard Eisuke want to ask for his permission, he imediately answer NO for Eisuke's confession. I think because Eisuke wanted to be polite, to ask Shinichi first to see whether he can confess to Ran, that explain why Shinichi doesnt let Eisuke confess, because Eisuke asked for permission first

I think you are missing the point. We all know WHY Shinichi reacted the way he did. The thing is, it is NOT consistent with things that have been shown and said beforehand (or it's a deliberate flaw, which I don't quite believe). He is cutting off Ran's opportunity to make a decision for herself. In the end, it's not his responsibility to decide in place of her, and that's what he should have told Eisuke as well. All the more so, if we take into account the scene where he said he'd rather have her move on and be happy than keep crying because of him. The scene with Eisuke, the way it is, is showing us that we can't take that statement at face value.
At the very least, the flow of that scene is not satisfactory.

[magnolia88]

I think Eisuke just wanted to test Shinichi about his real indentity not to declare his love (and he told him easily *sweatdropped)

[saorin]

I think Eisuke just wanted to test Shinichi about his real indentity not to declare his love (and he told him easily *sweatdropped)

We have Eisuke's word on it that he really DID fall in love with Ran. Considering Gosho's style, we can take that at face value with near certainty. Whether he actually wanted to tell Ran that or whether it was a trap for Shinichi... well, we'll never know. It could be either. Or both.
The thing is though that you're missing the point as well. Our quirm with that scene has nothing to do with Eisuke, his motives or why Shinichi answered the way he did. Especially considering that Shinichi obviously took Eisuke's proposition seriously.

The problem is the inconsistency of Shinichi's behaviour here. It's not even that he could have changed his stance on things after his chivalrous speech about "Ran being happy". You just can't pull that off without some explanation, e.g. with the help of an inner monologue, weighing options or something.

You can't excuse that with the assumption that the scene was just a "tool" for Eisuke cornering Shinichi.

[wolf4537]

I don't dislike Ran, but the problem is that like the other people have said, her character is out shadowed 99% of the time because of the plot of the episode/case that is going on. I can honestly say the same thing for the other characters of the series, I just can't really voice my opinion on whether i truly like them or not with fine detail.

There definitely are characters that I like and dislike in the series, but then again, I find myself paying more attention to the case that the episodes are revolved around rather than the character development.

[kkslider5552000]

I don't dislike Ran, but the problem is that like the other people have said, her character is out shadowed 99% of the time because of the plot of the episode/case that is going on. I can honestly say the same thing for the other characters of the series, I just can't really voice my opinion on whether i truly like them or not with fine detail.

There definitely are characters that I like and dislike in the series, but then again, I find myself paying more attention to the case that the episodes are revolved around rather than the character development.

I'm reminded that my favorite series is at least 90% focused on murder mysteries and how weird that is. I don't get into murder mystery series often, I got into it because it was an anime I saw once on Adult Swim. I watch anime, I enjoy anime, especially in the past few years. And ultimately I am more about character and plot development than murder mysteries (it doesn't help that the one-off characters are often not interesting). But I think intentionally or otherwise, the series stumbled upon the exact right amount of development to keep you invested while still being a murder mystery show. The fact that it's such a good one that I saw the majority of canon cases twice within the span of a year or so is all I need to say about whether it succeeds at both. But that slowness to the development I'd dare say is vital to why it's as good as it is. Both the development and cases are necessary together, this series wouldn't be anywhere near as good or compelling without either and most of us wouldn't spend so much time discussing the series' main female character.

[Nocturnalux]

But episodes 592 and 593 (The Tori's Pledge of Monkeys and Rakes) are pretty inexcusable. It was bad enough that the case was boring and forgettable in the middle of a wasteland of story or character development (even by usual standards). But it is so sexist; I need another paragraph just to describe it.

In this story, Ran gets a fortune on a piece of paper that says to be a traditional Japanese woman instead of tomboy-ish and gaudy if she wants the boy he likes to like her back. But that’s no big deal, it’s obvious that she’ll learn to be herself by the end and it’s just a dumb and obvious moral of the episode. But then she figures out to be more like herself…because the piece of paper was actually switched by Sonoko. The fortune meant for her basically said “never give up, be yourself and you’ll find true love!” She then kicks the culprit (who was the one to read it out loud because why not?) so hard that he is knocked out and can be arrested.

I’m sorry, what? What?! Are you kidding me?! That is just awful! This is one of those things I thought was bad at first but the more I thought about it, the more awful it became. That is straight up offensive to women, no other way to look at it. Just to add to this, it’s implied that before she found this out, she wasn’t going to fight back against the guy who was going to attack her with a knife. I’m not even joking. Not only does this suggest that the only way a woman (or a teenage girl) can be herself is if a fortune says it’s ok, it suggests that dying would be preferable to a girl not being ideal for the man she likes. There is no acknowledgment in any form that her dying in this scenario wouldn't fit until the paper is confirmed to be fake. This isn't a story about how Ran is hopelessly obsessed with this, it’s a story about how Ran is the ideal teenage girl for our genius detective protagonist. Ran shouldn't have an opinion in this apparently, just keep following the advice for stupid reasons. Even as someone who would never call himself a huge Ran fan, I’m offended as a fan of the series, good writing and as a person who respects the opposite sex.

I agree with virtually all of your points and having just finished the case you mentioned, I must say that I thought the exact same thing. And let us not forget that she does this whole 'not act tomboyish because of lovely fortune' not once but thrice. Earlier, she stumbles on some guys who are threatening this poor fellow and about to steal his wallet. She storms into the dark alley and confronts the criminals-to-be but then suddenly remembers the fortune and lamely acts all apologetic instead of kicking their asses and thus saving herself and the victim. Which goes to show that her awful, awful attitude would not only endanger herself as you so well pointed out but possibly even allow others to be harmed. And even earlier she allows Sonoko's bag to be stolen which while not half as bad is still pretty awful considering Sonoko is her very best friend.

I too am not a Ran fan, I do not actively dislike her but these episodes made me reconsider her as a character. It really was the pits even if the end pressed for a 'be yourself' scenario. And you're right, Ran is unfortunately a satellite to Conan. The moments when she does shine, like when she covered for Haibara when there were people actually shooting at them, was absolutely beautiful but it did not become a defining episode. She will shine on occasions but the episodic nature of the show almost snowballs them into the usual humdrum routine.

[b8ajenai]

If I were writing, I'd probably start to change the dynamics of the Shin'ichi/Ran relationship in a different way - have Ran find out, then basically be like, "I'll get to the bottom of things...not for your sake, but for Ai-chan's". and prolly hook up with her.

That's the way I read it.