Why do people dislike Ran?

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Darn. Starting to run out of things I can actually say in response, though I'll try.

Happens to us all.

I'm still not entirely sure that the benefits cited do outweigh having the development occur sooner. For the reference if needed, I'd say that everything from the second chapter from way, way back to sometime after the Vermouth arc's conclusion would be the point I'd consider implementing the change.

Wouldn't have minded that, at all—Desperate Revival probably would've been a great time to have such a change in the status quo. Maybe have Shinichi/Conan confess his identity at the sight of Ran looking so distraught and in pain, instead of continuing to lie, and further developments in their relationship would proceed from there. Or, have the third suspicion arc (479–483/398–400) come early, around the time of the end of the Vermouth arc (398–428), and have it end with her actually finding him out.

It seems like everything up to the Vermouth arc has the best...

I think quite a few people would agree with this.

1. "Again—if Ran knew in both cases where Shinichi/Conan took a prototype antidote capsule (and Kazuha in one of them), there'd be no need to risk being discovered by random motorists and no need to risk being stranded in a foreign country."

Maybe. Though I imagine even being brought into the fold and being the one who's with him more frequently, there are time where Ran surely can't always be there to bail him out.

And after hundreds of chapters/episodes, that suspense of him being outed to a lot of people seems more like the kind of thing that's a given not to happen. Early on when the series is in it's infancy and the status quo is still being formed, sure, but by now it's really more a matter of how he'll get out of it than his secret being compromised..

The only reason Shinichi's secret is in danger of getting out is because he takes that second capsule just after the first one wore off—if Ran knew, or if Ran and Kazuha knew, Shinichi/Conan could just hide in Heiji's bag, or Hiroshi and Shiho/Ai could show up and say Shinichi/Conan got better, and he could appear, at that moment. Point is this—he wouldn't need a capsule so he wouldn't have to leave Ran like that, thus risking his secret being exposed.

So the choice seems to be this—go through a situation we know he'll get out of, or don't have that situation at all. If Ran knew, then it would be the latter option—all the drama is about her finding out his secret, since she doesn't know.

- Desperate Revival easily being the best tends to work in many regards. Ran deals with her suspicion in a different fashion especially as she would need to confront him with top notch evidence, plus doing so without giving him a chance to get help in throwing her off. Heck, Conan even for the first time gives serious thoughts to opening up even though she's not trying to force any secrets out of him.

The Detective Boys get a chance to succeed without Conan guiding them.

Compared to the previous time Conan returned to normal, the transformation lasts longer and since he doesn't think it will wear off, we get to see Shinichi trying to live his relatively normal life again, plus the near confession to Ran. Heck we have a brief first in that Shinichi greets the Detective Boys as himself (their interaction in the first episode not occurring in the manga), and it's a dynamic I'd like to somehow see done more elaborately should Conan briefly return to being Shinichi for another arc.

Yep—this case would've been a great time for Ran to find out.

The Shinigami case? Compared to the London arc and other cases that had Conan briefly regaining his true body, it just seems to be weakest overall.

Shinigami, while a nice diversion from the normal cases, just doesn't have much going for it for a Shinichi return even with the possible contribution to the suspicion arc. And removing the tease of plenty of redshirts finding out about Shinichi*, the best aspects of the arc is the first case with Shinichi revisiting a previous murder he dealt with with someone framing him to the point of altering himself to be a near double.

I think that the suspicion element will be its biggest plot contribution, when all's said and done.

It also came 100 chapters before Holmes' Revelation—100 chapters before Shinichi grabbed hold of Ran and refused to let go after he'd thought that he'd lose her, she grabbed ahold of him when she'd thought she'd lose him, again... but she let go. The next time she saw Kazuha, after Shinichi's confession, she told her that she hadn't responded to Shinichi's confession because she thought, if she did, she'd "crash back to reality." Shinichi/Conan not granting the respect to her that she grants him, and him trying to have the best of both worlds is untenable—him confessing to her in the middle of this long, background, suspicion arc/period? That confession coming so early?

I'm telling you, Gosho has opportunities open, here.

2. As much as I think Conan does the secrecy thing too far, I can't entirely dismiss the necessity of it, within reason. And for whatever creative loss there would be for Ran joining the circle, one potential gain I see is another sense of irony.

Said irony being that from time to time Ran will have to deal with the dilemma of when it's okay to lie to those still (presumably*) out of the loop (despite being on the receiving end of deception herself), and when she might have to make the risk of trusting someone else close by herself. I mean Heiji and others who've been involved had to contribute to lying as well, but they found out quickly enough that Ran seems like the ideal character to deal with such a moral problem.

*And this is the drawback of having a story being married to the status quo. It's hard to feel suspense when the writer is hesitant for a change which would still be less severe in comparison.

Like Kazuha? Certainly.

Once DC ends, I can't wait to go back and look at all the things that could be cut—and to have important elements in cases that could be cut merge with more important cases—and see how long it could've been. I already do that, but we're still ongoing, here—it's harder to know, with the ending still somewhere on the horizon.

[eros1607]

Hi you guys. My first comment here.

I always think that Ran lacks something unique in her personality. Characters like Ran are so common in old school manga so she did not bring anything new in the first place. Even in DC, there are some characters like Ran and in some aspects, they are funnier to watch. The most obvious example is Kazuha. Ran and Kazuha are too similar, in their characteristics and their love. However, the love story of Kazuha and Hattori is more funnier to watch than Ran and Shinichi. After more interesting female characters appeared in DC, Ran as a character began to suffer. She doesn't have the sharpness of her mother, Eri Kisaki (I even feel that Eri Kisaki is more like the mother of Haibara/Shiho), the mischievousness of Yukiko, the sarcasm of Haibara. Even the single interesting feature of Ran which is Karate now is negative affected with the appearance of Sera, who masters martial arts, has deduction skill and is related to the plot and maybe a love rival of Ran. Her love story with Shinichi may be cute but we have Takagi and Sato already (nowadays, we begin to pay attention to Haneda Shukichi and Yumi). Her patient to wait for Shinichi is very wonderful but that is nothing compare to Fusae. Ran is not impressive as a character and a love interest to our protagonist.

Even in the plot, the role of Ran is not big. Ran is involved in plot mainly by the full moon showdown and her relation with Vermouth and maybe Sera. Even if Ran didn't appear in the showdown , Shuichi Akai would surely save Haibara, Conan and Jodie. Gosho let her involve in the showdown mainly to prevent the meeting of Akai and Haibara, which is certainly important for the plot. Her relation with Vermouth guarantees that Vermouth will not do something harmful to Shinichi and Ran. However, at the moment, we don't pay attention to Vermouth. We focus on Rum, Akai, Amuro, Haneda Kouji and the Sera's family. If anything about plot, Haibara and Sera play far more important role. Haibara is the key of all the manga. Her information about her parent's research will be the biggest mystery of DC, along with Anokata. Sera is related to Akai and Gosho will focus on her in ongoing chapters.

The anime directors cannot find anything to do with Ran at all. Recent AO cases we can see the absence of Ran, just Kogoro and Conan is enough. In the recent movie, Ran does not appear more than 5 minutes and contribute nothing to the movies (Heck, in the trailer, Ran is still crying and call"Shinichi" which doesn't appear on the screen at all). In the previous movies, Ran is mostly a "damsel in distress" (some movies she is not) which is boring and annoying. In the TV special "The Disappearance of Conan Edogawa: The Worst Two Days in History", we can see the difference between Haibara and Ran, what Haibara does is far cooler than Ran. Haibara deduced what going on, drove a car and somewhat replaced Conan as the protagonist in the beginning. What Ran did in the special is running to the crime scene because she thought her Shinichi is there. In the movie Lupin vs Conan, Haibara is even more impressive, especially her discussion about philosophy of being a woman with Fujiko Mine. Does Ran have such a philosophy of life? Sad but the answer is "NO", the Tori case is the most obvious example.

That is my opinion about why Ran is disliked. Any comment is welcome.

[ersha]

i dont care with people who hated ran... i still like ran forever n im sure shinichi/conan love ran forever too

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Hi you guys. My first comment here.

I always think that Ran lacks something unique in her personality. Characters like Ran are so common in old school manga so she did not bring anything new in the first place. Even in DC, there are some characters like Ran and in some aspects, they are funnier to watch. The most obvious example is Kazuha. Ran and Kazuha are too similar, in their characteristics and their love. However, the love story of Kazuha and Hattori is more funnier to watch than Ran and Shinichi. After more interesting female characters appeared in DC, Ran as a character began to suffer. She doesn't have the sharpness of her mother, Eri Kisaki (I even feel that Eri Kisaki is more like the mother of Haibara/Shiho), the mischievousness of Yukiko, the sarcasm of Haibara. Even the single interesting feature of Ran which is Karate now is negative affected with the appearance of Sera, who masters martial arts, has deduction skill and is related to the plot and maybe a love rival of Ran. Her love story with Shinichi may be cute but we have Takagi and Sato already (nowadays, we begin to pay attention to Haneda Shukichi and Yumi). Her patient to wait for Shinichi is very wonderful but that is nothing compare to Fusae. Ran is not impressive as a character and a love interest to our protagonist.

Even in the plot, the role of Ran is not big. Ran is involved in plot mainly by the full moon showdown and her relation with Vermouth and maybe Sera. Even if Ran didn't appear in the showdown , Shuichi Akai would surely save Haibara, Conan and Jodie. Gosho let her involve in the showdown mainly to prevent the meeting of Akai and Haibara, which is certainly important for the plot. Her relation with Vermouth guarantees that Vermouth will not do something harmful to Shinichi and Ran. However, at the moment, we don't pay attention to Vermouth. We focus on Rum, Akai, Amuro, Haneda Kouji and the Sera's family. If anything about plot, Haibara and Sera play far more important role. Haibara is the key of all the manga. Her information about her parent's research will be the biggest mystery of DC, along with Anokata. Sera is related to Akai and Gosho will focus on her in ongoing chapters.

The anime directors cannot find anything to do with Ran at all. Recent AO cases we can see the absence of Ran, just Kogoro and Conan is enough. In the recent movie, Ran does not appear more than 5 minutes and contribute nothing to the movies (Heck, in the trailer, Ran is still crying and call"Shinichi" which doesn't appear on the screen at all). In the previous movies, Ran is mostly a "damsel in distress" (some movies she is not) which is boring and annoying. In the TV special "The Disappearance of Conan Edogawa: The Worst Two Days in History", we can see the difference between Haibara and Ran, what Haibara does is far cooler than Ran. Haibara deduced what going on, drove a car and somewhat replaced Conan as the protagonist in the beginning. What Ran did in the special is running to the crime scene because she thought her Shinichi is there. In the movie Lupin vs Conan, Haibara is even more impressive, especially her discussion about philosophy of being a woman with Fujiko Mine. Does Ran have such a philosophy of life? Sad but the answer is "NO", the Tori case is the most obvious example.

That is my opinion about why Ran is disliked. Any comment is welcome.

What would you suggest to remedy all this? Any specifics in mind?

[eros1607]

What would you suggest to remedy all this? Any specifics in mind?

I think that is very hard. Ran has been portrayed like that for too long. For beginners, she is still likeable but for veteran readers, she is a challenge for their patience with her so many flaws. Concerning the plot is too slow, characters like Eri, Yukiko, Haibara, Sera, Sato... at least are more entertaining than Ran. Her portrait in the openings, endings and movies should change also. Why everything she does in OP, ED and movies should be related to Shinichi/Conan? Why she should be used as a "damsel in distress" so many times? Ran can only regain her popularity if she does something significant, like an amazing deduction to prove that Conan=Shinichi. However, that deduction will only take place in the end of the manga,maybe in 10 years later, when people even don't care about her. We should take note that people care about her because her relationship with Shinichi but people care about Yukiko, Vermouth, Haibara, Sera because of the plot. Ironically, Ran does not appear will boost the plot faster. Like in the full moon showdown, if Akai saved Haibara, the plot would be different already and we maybe not have to wait for 7 year Bourbon arc. The Clash between Red and Black and the Scarlet series also don't have Ran. The writing for Ran should change but she has been a side character for such a long time. We can only rely on the talent of Gosho.

[Kor]

Kay guys. Been fun but I'm locking this thread now.
It's not like it erupted or anything, but based on some of the posts in this thread, I feel like it's better to close it than leave it open. Instead of "why do people dislike Ran", some posts read like "why I dislike Ran". The title of this thread makes it very easy to "hide" behind it and we've said since forever that we'd like to refrain from character-bashing, and this thread is quite the gateway for such activity.

Generally I'd say this thread served its purpose and ran its course.