Mafia Mafia Mafia! (New Thread Exists)

[Callid]

VICTORY!
...
Well, I hope nobody is surprised about my role. And you might know now how I knew what Araide did...

Also, although it wasn't much of a deal in this game because he was lynched right away, I realized that something needs to be done about Sherry. Effectively, as she is now, she's like the round 1 trickster on steroids because:
1) if she gets a "not BO" scent, she 100% knows that the person is not in the BO and can thus form alliances quickly, especially because the person knows she accompanied him (basically her version of the "you didn't succeed in doing anything" message)
2) she gets twice as many opportunities to do this.
3) although she gets a "BO" scent from akai and kir, they are only a small portion of the town so it's unlikely that even if kir was still in the game, it doesn't matter much if she doesn't trust them.

I agree with you on this. I'd suggest to alter her role in a way that she

1) can only detect if BO or not. No "strength of scent", and Anakota does not have any scent (Wasn't it said he already appeared in the series? Yet Ai didn't notice him, therefore this isn't very unlikely). Therefore the results aren't sure anymore.
2) can only accompany someone at day. Even if she found a BO, she has to survive both the day and the night to use the knowledge.

I'd keep the rest, she'll still be a strong character, but there's nothing wrong about this.

Oh, another role that I think might need tweaking is Investigators:

even with Investigator 5, neither Abs or Kleene got anything right either night. I think having to get the two players right, and the first player's role right (in order to get the action right) is a bit too much. Imo, characters should have the # of investigations reduced, and instead only have to investigate things like "Sakina killed", "mangaluva healed", "ctu protected", etc, without having to guess the second person.

Nope, I wouldn't change it (at least not for the police). The investigators are supposed to be weak (they are the pawns in the game), only a little it more than ordinary townsfolk. The likeliness of the FBI/CIA getting a positive result should be one in three or four nights, and the police much less, perhaps once in a six- or seven-nighted game - the true power of the police is the arresting (which was never used *sigh*).
Perhaps we could use your suggestion for the FBI/CIA (# = 2 for Jodie and Akai; # = 1 for all others) and keep the police as it is. The police is not supposed to find out someone's action and arrest accordingly but to risk something by arresting a (likely) suspect for something (for example, Beastly might have tried to arrest me for killing ranger). If they fail, it's not a real problem - as I said, they are pawns, and they are still able to vote. Even more, the townsfolk can now trust them, and if several police men got expelled, they get quite strong. However, perhaps we should choose # = 7.

Considering Sonoko, I don't think we need to do anything. That's the way it's supposed to be, and actually just the opposite can happen if Vermouth decides to leave the BO, or if Kir is in the game.


And I'd introduce a new character type:

• Mitsuhiko/Ayumi/Genta, Detective Boys
  • [li]Know each other's identities.
  • Can not be disguised as (how should Vermouth disguise as Ayumi!?).
  • Decide one person to interrogate at day together. Therefore, slandering is useless against them, but disguises and Anakota's immunity do still work.
  [/li]

[Akonyl]

Considering Sonoko, I don't think we need to do anything. That's the way it's supposed to be, and actually just the opposite can happen if Vermouth decides to leave the BO, or if Kir is in the game.


And I'd introduce a new character type:

• Mitsuhiko/Ayumi/Genta, Detective Boys
  • [li]Know each other's identities.
  • Can not be disguised as (how should Vermouth disguise as Ayumi!?).
  • Decide one person to interrogate at day together. Therefore, slandering is useless against them, but disguises and Anakota's immunity do still work.
  [/li]

I still don't like that, and actually I would have removed Vermouth's "deserter" ability if I'd noticed it. The fact that Sonoko can basically single-handedly win the game by picking a BO member as a friend (in a game with this population at least) is sort of lame, and likewise Vermouth having the ability to cripple the BO by leaving the first night isn't too good either. As for Kir, I just don't like her at all because having a role that's supposed to beat the BO, and knows who they are but isn't allowed to say anything about it is sort of silly. Not to mention, the fact that they could easily PM someone and tell them who's in the BO and have that person do things. If the game was larger, team-switching wouldn't be a huge deal but in this case the game's balance is pretty delicate. I'm not sure how you can quite think it fair that you won almost simply by not having a BO lynched on the first day

As for the detective boys, it's an interesting idea, maybe. As for adding roles, I was also thinking of adding Kichiro Numabuchi the serial killer, but I haven't quite decided on how he'd play out exactly anyway.

[Callid]

I still don't like that, and actually I would have removed Vermouth's "deserter" ability if I'd noticed it. The fact that Sonoko can basically single-handedly win the game by picking a BO member as a friend (in a game with this population at least) is sort of lame, and likewise Vermouth having the ability to cripple the BO by leaving the first night isn't too good either. As for Kir, I just don't like her at all because having a role that's supposed to beat the BO, and knows who they are but isn't allowed to say anything about it is sort of silly. Not to mention, the fact that they could easily PM someone and tell them who's in the BO and have that person do things. If the game was larger, team-switching wouldn't be a huge deal but in this case the game's balance is pretty delicate. I'm not sure how you can quite think it fair that you won almost simply by not having a BO lynched on the first day

As for the detective boys, it's an interesting idea, maybe. As for adding roles, I was also thinking of adding Kichiro Numabuchi the serial killer, but I haven't quite decided on how he'd play out exactly anyway.

Well, let's say then that as long as we don't have 20 people, we'll ban all team-switching. Therefore

• Vermouth can not leave the BO.
• Kir is simply a FBI; # = 2.
• Sonoko will befriend a role. So she might befriend the Trickster or whoever. This will indeed make her stronger, but she was (as non-BO) weak anyway.

Also, if you use my FBI/Police suggestion, the detectives may choose between interrogating, FBI investigation (# = 2) and Police investigation (# = 7). Quite funny, they can try to find out alignment (2 possible), role (~ 25 possible) and action (~ 300 possible)...

Oh, and another idea: we could actually make the FBI investigation ability the same as the Bourbon ability. In this case, we should always use # = 2 (it's easier) and Bourbon should also get # = 2.

[Tanner-kun]

yes I won and didn't die this game! The best part is how people keep saying "it was because I joined the org that we won." Sonoko is bettewr role than I thought.

the reason I chose samuel jackson as my code name was because how could you be a member with out a code name so i got it from this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtdFRHQwF2I#ws

One more thing why do you game mods keep giving me female roles?

[Kleene Onigiri]

Changing that Investigator ability should be done.

Let's see, if you have 11 Players and around 10 options (slander, kill, trick, heal, investigate, interrogate, Agasa (x2), protect, accompany (sherry))

So you need to calculate:

10 * 10 = 100 combinations (10 because you don't count yourself)

and then you multiply it with the options 100 * 10 = 1000

Then you can investigate 5 times: 5/1000 = 0,005 = 0,5% chance to get something as a interrogator the first night..... (0,4% for Police :p)
If you get 10 investigations you get a 1% chance to be right on the first night.
Well, ofc with every kill your chance is getting better, but so does every other ability too.
2. Night: 8 * 8 * 10(or less) = 640 => 5/640 = 0,78% still low
8 * 8 * 8(if gin and araide dies (2 options lost)) = 512 => 5/512 = 0,97% ....

If you do it the other way (Ctu heals etc.) then you just have 10 * 10 = 100 combinations. That get's you a chance of 1/100= 1% or 5/100 = 5% (if you can do it 5 times)
2. night:
8 * 10 = 80 => 1/80=1,25% or 5/80= 6,25%
8 * 8(2 abilities lost)= 64 => 1/64= 1,56% or 5/64= 7,8%

(all calculations is without any hints ofc)

Getting something right with 0,5% is almost impossible. The rising of your chances is slim too. Now imagine if it's more than 11 players someday....

So the way with "ctu heals" is better, and the possibility of being right is still slim (without having hints). Also the rising of you chances every night isn't so big either, but still good enough.



Now to the balance BO : town

11 people playing, 3 BO, 8 Town

So that the Town wins straight (every day a BO is lynched):
3BOs = 3 nights needed => 3 rounds to play

So that the BO wins straight (every night and day a towndude dies):
8 Townspeople => 8-3 = 5 people to kill (then it's  3 town vs. 3 BO)

5/2= 2,5 => you need at least 3 rounds to play too (win after 3. night)


11 people playing, 2 BO, 9 Town


So that the Town wins straight (every day a BO is lynched):
2BOs = 2 nights needed => 2 rounds to play

So that the BO wins straight (every night and day a towndude dies):
9 Townspeople => 9-2 = 7 people to kill (then it's  2 town vs. 2 BO)

7/2= 3,5 => you need at least 4 rounds to play too (win after 4. night)

Case 2BO : 9Townies would be unbalanced. But you can still do that but then you have to give the BO good jobs to make it fair.

/math

[Tanner-kun]

oh and sign me up for game 4

[Callid]

I'd like to note that it makes the most sense for the investigators to focus on one option: kill. Anything else isn't nearly as interesting, as kill will surely identify a Mafia member.

10 (player) * 1 (option) * 10 (targets) = 100 possibilities.
If you investigate 7, you have a 7,00% chance.

Second night: 64 possibilities - 10,94%.
Third night: 36 possibilities - 19,44%.
And, in case of a
Forth night: 16 possibilities - 43,75%.

And we haven't considered hints etc. yet, this should probably make it twice as likely (or even more):
1st: 14%
2nd: 22%
3rd: 39%
4th: 87%

Even if we exclude the last one, we have a 1-(86%*78%*61%) = 59,1% chance that the investigator is right once. With the last one, it are 94,7%. With these numbers I consider it quite appropriate.

@ Akonyl:
I'm in for the next, too.

[Tanner-kun]

math witch at first confused me by using a comma ( , ) instead of a decimal ( . )

[Kleene Onigiri]

math witch at first confused me by using a comma ( , ) instead of a decimal ( . )

I'm sry ;p but that's because i'm from germany ;p and it's reversed here.

I'd like to note that it makes the most sense for the investigators to focus on one option: kill. Anything else isn't nearly as interesting, as kill will surely identify a Mafia member.

10 (player) * 1 (option) * 10 (targets) = 100 possibilities.
If you investigate 7, you have a 7,00% chance.

Second night: 64 possibilities - 10,94%.
Third night: 36 possibilities - 19,44%.
And, in case of a
Forth night: 16 possibilities - 43,75%.

And we haven't considered hints etc. yet, this should probably make it twice as likely (or even more):
1st: 14%
2nd: 22%
3rd: 39%
4th: 87%

Even if we exclude the last one, we have a 1-(86%*78%*61%) = 59,1% chance that the investigator is right once. With the last one, it are 94,7%. With these numbers I consider it quite appropriate.

@ Akonyl:
I'm in for the next, too.

true, although slander is a good option too (if there is a gin).
Still it's kinda low compared to other abilities.

[Tanner-kun]

Its oh so your from germany, now I now when you sleep. LOL.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Its oh so your from germany, now I now when you sleep. LOL.

I don't sleep since I'm a Bot ;p

[CTU]

OMFG I can't believe we lost...THo I am more shocked that MY NIGHT ONE DREAM WAS SO RIGHT!!!!!!! *bangs head against wall*

I'm in for round 4


[quote]As makoto, you take no action.

However, you have a dream...

You dream that you are standing guard in Kleene Onigiri's bedroom, facing her bedroom door. She feels that the Black Organization is after her life, because of her investigating of Vermouth- the woman who killed her mother, and has since asked you to protect her. However, as you are standing guard, you hear the sound of shattering glass, and turn around to see the window shattered, and see that Kleene has been sniped through the window. As you jump out the window in pursuit, you can see the silhouette of Sakina packing up a sniper rifle and running off. As you pursue her, you come across Abs, wearing a black stocking cap, who is making no effort to catch Sakina. You yell at him, asking why he didn't catch her, him being the original silver bullet and all.

He replies “Ah, sorry, you must be mistaken, I'm not actually who you think I am...â€

[Abs.]

Abs. lynches Callid anyway.

[CTU]

Abs. lynches Callid anyway.

I'll bring some fire to burn the body

[Akonyl]

to people mentioning a round 4, I'm actually gonna take a break from modding it for a wee bit, so either wait for me to feel like modding again or someone else can pick it up