ESPIONAGE: Round Three (Spies & Informants Win)

[Jd-]

@everyone but mostly Jd-: I agree about reform being needed for how the rules are maintained. This idea may be really stupid, but if possible it could help control any leaks. If GMs are given temporary mod powers then they can edit posts rapidly without the need to wait for someone else with mod powers to come along and be asked to sort it out then that could at least speed up the process of countering rule breaks such as happened in this game. If the rules won't always hold then there needs to be decent damage control at least. Of course, if this isn't possible or you don't want to implement it I can also see why.

I think I have an idea on how to implement this (modding), on a topic-by-topic basis. It shouldn't be a problem.

I'll be back later, and am very, very, very curious to hear more from shinichi'sapprentice and what was going on behind the scenes with him, specifically. I'd also like to hear from Fujiwara, who had such a good read on the Spies from Day 1. Of course, I'd also like to hear more from the Detectives, so take your time, Jellitto!

@Jd-
I said it again, but you did an awesome job as the Informant.
I have a question. I thought about it in Day 4, but--- you said you thought we were the Detectives.
You said that only because I said I thought you were the Detectives, right?

You were a great civilian, on that same token, as I wrote in the preface earlier! Truly will have to be looked back on as a fundamental example of what a civilian player is. "So innocent that he looks guilty!" was what I thought back then. You did a great job, and I'm really glad (from a drama standpoint) you made it so interesting with interrupting that tie-vote on Day 1. As you've probably figured by now, my idea was really because I expected one of those two formidable teams to get arrested due to it being so hard to arrange a tie like that. But, you managed it and came and saved them at the end. It was really impressive work.

And, as for the Day 4 question: You're exactly right. I actually saw the posts requesting me specifically say who I thought the Detective was, and was like, "I really hope dumytru comes around soon, because I need to be sure my answer is somehow equatable to his." When you said us, I realized I could say the same about you guys and thus would build you up as even more closely allied with us. When it came time to reveal us as the Informants and stage the "Team 7 or Team 10" debate, I was really hoping they'd go back to those moments and suspect us of having arranged it to make each other look like civilians.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

@Kleene Yes, but I think in this case dumytru means a draw as in drawing names to see who gets which role

[dumytru]

@Kleene Yes, but I think in this case dumytru means a draw as in drawing names to see who gets which role

No, I meant a tie.

[Jecka]

i at least want to see miyano, meme, Fuji, Kleene, and togop's list.

1. Team 6: Conan-chandesune and Togop
2. Team 1: Hime-chan and Stopwatch
3. Team 4: Jd- and Kaito Lady
4. Team 7: Kamite and breva
5. Team 10: Cider and dumytru

[Iwamoto Yuri]

@Kleene Yes, but I think in this case dumytru means a draw as in drawing names to see who gets which role

No, I meant a tie.

how would that help?

[Togop]

@Togop.
You are being an ass and you know it. The migraine was a direct result from these last moments. Yes I let it go on, I wanted to see where things were going even with a disadvantage on the spy team, but when a game is affecting me outside the internet I know it's time to stop. I'm sorry if that made you vote the wrong person.

I appologize. I did that because you sounded condescending, but it was probably not your intention.
Thanks for GM-ing.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

sneaking a post while working: Togop, are you gonna be online 5-8 hours from now??

[KainTheVampire]

I don't see how the detectives could really be active in this game if they don't find the spies early :x If Jellitto and I would have been active, it would either have been to write posts like "I have absolutely no idea what to do but I'm wasting your time by forcing you to read this completely pointless post. " or we'd keep saying who we'll vote for and accuse innocent people for being suspicious, only so we can be active. That would be a waste.
Then people would think those were hints after they realize we're the detectives

[shinichi'sapprentice]

Jd-, was the family emergency true?

[Stopwatch]

I don't see how the detectives could really be active in this game if they don't find the spies early :x If Jellitto and I would have been active, it would either have been to write posts like "I have absolutely no idea what to do but I'm wasting your time by forcing you to read this completely pointless post. " or we'd keep saying who we'll vote for and accuse innocent people for being suspicious, only so we can be active. That would be a waste.
Then people would think those were hints after they realize we're the detectives

Strategise? I should have started actually doing the read thing I suggested to make it easier for others to follow without hinting that they were the Detectives, but I kept forgetting to ask Hime her opinions on the others that we could share ^^;.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Btw. is it just me? I kinda spend more time on espionage with all those big post and theories being posted than I need for Mafia D: How is it for the others? O_o"

[Fujiwara]

It's really sad that the game took such an unfortunate turn on Day 4, because, as Jd said, it was a really exciting round up to that point, and I was having quite a lot of fun following the game even after I was dead. Jd in particular was playing a masterful game and I was looking forward to see how things would turn out.

I'd also like to hear from Fujiwara, who had such a good read on the Spies from Day 1.

Haha, you're giving me way too much credit here. I obviously had no idea who the spies were on Day 1, since there was nothing to base such a deduction on. When Togop suggested we nominate votees, I asked Raifuu who she would like to nominate and she suggested Team 7, so that's what we did.

As Raifuu wrote earlier, our list was

Team 5: RoboG55 and Meme
Team 7: Kamite and breva
Team 8: Jecka and miyano_shiho
Team 11: KleeneOnigiri and Miaka
Team 4: Jd- and Kaito Lady

and at this point I was fine with nominating any of them except for Jd/Kaito Lady. Jd had proven to be a valuable ally in round 2 and I wasn't about to put him at risk of being voted out even accidentally before I had any reason to suspect his alliances lay elsewhere.

But, well, it seems like Jd didn’t like our nomination too much.
When Jd suggested that Togop and I take the place of votees, I did think it somewhat suspicious, but I didn’t make the connection to our nomination of Kamite/breva specifically at all. Nevertheless, I could see that using two volunteers would make it more likely for people to agree to the scheme, and I didn’t mind taking the accompanying risk too much.

One of the unexpected side-effects of the tie-scheme was that I was quite sure that dumytru was a Civilian afterwards. Yes, as people suggested, he might have put in all that effort to establish his innocence, but all things considered that seemed like a rather unlikely scenario to me.

Day 2 was a rather slow day, all in all. I was pretty sure that the non-kill by the spy on Day 1 had been a red herring to make us suspect the less active players (which turned out to be the truth) and posted as much:

There’s another possibility though that we shouldn’t forget about: Maybe the spy is someone who’s (very) active and he didn’t kill anyone to make us believe that the spy is an inactive team. Considering that many of us came to that conclusion when the spy didn’t kill on Day 2 in the last game, I wouldn’t be surprised if the spy deliberately took that course of action.

And then it was already game over for Raifuu and me.

[Jd-]

I don't see how the detectives could really be active in this game if they don't find the spies early :x If Jellitto and I would have been active, it would either have been to write posts like "I have absolutely no idea what to do but I'm wasting your time by forcing you to read this completely pointless post. " or we'd keep saying who we'll vote for and accuse innocent people for being suspicious, only so we can be active. That would be a waste.
Then people would think those were hints after they realize we're the detectives

This is definitely something I've thought about a bit. I actually want to change the way "Investigate" works, if not replace it to some degree with something similar but a little different. I'll mention whatever comes to mind in the central topic. Thanks for the feedback on this! I was curious about your opinion about how well the Detectives worked out in this team round specifically.

Jd-, was the family emergency true?

It was very unfortunately timed; I decided to post from my phone because no matter what anyone posted (even if, for example, you had posted a completely accurate summation asking me to refute it) there was no way for me to get involved even if I absolutely had to, prior to me getting home. Once I got back, I decided to go with my original plan of not saying anything else as not much had changed.

It's really sad that the game took such an unfortunate turn on Day 4, because, as Jd said, it was a really exciting round up to that point, and I was having quite a lot of fun following the game even after I was dead. Jd in particular was playing a masterful game and I was looking forward to see how things would turn out.

I'd also like to hear from Fujiwara, who had such a good read on the Spies from Day 1.

Haha, you're giving me way too much credit here. I obviously had no idea who the spies were on Day 1, since there was nothing to base such a deduction on. When Togop suggested we nominate votees, I asked Raifuu who she would like to nominate and she suggested Team 7, so that's what we did.

As Raifuu wrote earlier, our list was

Team 5: RoboG55 and Meme
Team 7: Kamite and breva
Team 8: Jecka and miyano_shiho
Team 11: KleeneOnigiri and Miaka
Team 4: Jd- and Kaito Lady

and at this point I was fine with nominating any of them except for Jd/Kaito Lady. Jd had proven to be a valuable ally in round 2 and I wasn't about to put him at risk of being voted out even accidentally before I had any reason to suspect his alliances lay elsewhere.

But, well, it seems like Jd didn’t like our nomination too much.
When Jd suggested that Togop and I take the place of votees, I did think it somewhat suspicious, but I didn’t make the connection to our nomination of Kamite/breva specifically at all. Nevertheless, I could see that using two volunteers would make it more likely for people to agree to the scheme, and I didn’t mind taking the accompanying risk too much.

One of the unexpected side-effects of the tie-scheme was that I was quite sure that dumytru was a Civilian afterwards. Yes, as people suggested, he might have put in all that effort to establish his innocence, but all things considered that seemed like a rather unlikely scenario to me.

Wow, interesting! As soon as you guys had nominated Kamite/breva, I knew it was going to be a rough road to the end of the game. I actually even considered the avenue of making people believe I was a Spy in the end, but I decided against it since it would've required a lot more work and may have been too obvious a ploy.

I would like to mention that, with regard to the reasoning behind changing the tie-vote, I actually do believe that putting the quiet players up for slaughter for ties (even though I know that wasn't anyone's intent) will never go over well. I used it to our advantage to try to get rid of two formidable civilian opponents there (didn't work thanks to dumytru; curse you, sir!), but even in future rounds when I'm a civilian, I won't be someone who goes through with that sorta thing.

As for the dumytru innocence, it looks like you and I were on the same wavelength there, having picked up on the same cues and come to the same conclusion. Interesting indeed! As soon as it all occurred to me, I knew that was going to be a big part of the game for us and being one of the first (if not the first) to point it out could come in handy later on if it were needed.

---

I think I'd like to encourage special role players to keep diaries of their decisions from now on. It was just an idea that occurred to me during Prep Phase but I think it's an interesting thing that can help answer a lot of questions in an easily-consumable form at the end of the game. I really like hearing everyone's insight into what goes into each move, so it could be fun. Your choice!

All in all, this was an incredibly fun round for the most part and I hope we've all learned lessons from it. As stated before, there will be an overhaul to close all the problems we encountered here, so there's no reason to make anyone feel bad or chastise anyone. We'll be patching everything up, hang in there!

[shinichi'sapprentice]

Jd-, was the family emergency true?

It was very unfortunately timed; I decided to post from my phone because no matter what anyone posted (even if, for example, you had posted a completely accurate summation asking me to refute it) there was no way for me to get involved even if I absolutely had to, prior to me getting home. Once I got back, I decided to go with my original plan of not saying anything else as not much had changed.

so, it's true? ok. i just have to clear you on that because that is just evil if you used that reason to dodge my posts. i hope all is well in your family. just like Jellitto, it'll probably take more than hours to post all i want to say. there's no reason for me to rush anymore, unlike last night, in which i was in a hurry to post everything i can, though still was insufficient.

Later.

[RoboG55]

Back from a trip!
I knew that Kamite and breva were the spies! I had my suspicions Might have voted them if I was still around. XD