Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[PT]

Kazuha: Agreed on being able to give herself the charm more than once. She can still only use it successfully one time, so it doesn't change that much, it just makes it sliiiightly more useful. (And less chance of her being poisoned because she was forced to give it to someone else and she gave to the wrong person.)

Protect: Agreed on only protecting one person per day. It wouldn't be too overpowered because the BO can't just mass protect themselves, plus there's a 2-phase injury after it's successful, so it can't be used to protect BO two days in a row.

Stalk: The only thing I have against making stalk also potentially show items is that if the BO has this as a disguise and also has Akemi, that's a potential free steal, basically. Except the person being stalked won't know, they'll just know they were followed (which would then be Ran, Makoto, Sera, Pisco, Haibara, Kazuha, Anokata, Vermouth, Kid). So I don't know. But I agree with giving it to Ran and Makoto. And I'm undecided on the day/night clause.

Experiment: I'm willing to test it and see how it goes. As it is now, apparently Sherry isn't that useful. This might help.

[Yurikochan]

The Kazuha change I'm ok with it, if she wants to be selfish she can be, and if it becomes a problem which I can't actually see happening, we can go change it back to a limited amount of times.

Protect - I'm in total agreement with protect being one person a day. I always believed it should be for this reason alone.

Experiment- We can give it a try, and see how it goes. I do like the clause added and agree on it.

Protect/Stalk - Not sure I agree on losing a night protect at all, in my honest opinion after it was changed to not show the killer, it became worse than heal, since the protector is injured for 2 phases, and still gets killed by snipe, which makes sense in a real situation, but the protector on the town side having to choose between stalking/protecting makes it pretty clear which they will choose, and protect most likely becomes worthless, I do not feel that town protectors use day protect unless in PT's case Miles Edgeworth possibly tried to get Franny lynched and I offered my day protect, but still stalked instead. ( as it was the better of the choices ) had the town not ultimately been allied from that point or she did not lynch a BO day 1, the protect would have been best. Anyways, I'm not sure how I actually feel about limiting the night protect any more than it is, but these are just my feelings. But yeah, protect feels more like a BO action if this ends up the case. :x

The notices definitely need to be split IMO maybe a new keyword for several of them...we'll figure something out.

I'd like to try out the items and see how it goes, we can change it back. ( I suggested it cause one person had it only, with the addition of more it maybe best to continue how it is now. )

Also still willing to give snipers follow up, but it contradicts Sherry if it's caught so maybe if Sherry ultimately gets taken out, then we can add it for the sniper to be like every other SOer. :V

[PT]

While we wait for other people to throw in their input, here are a couple of new town character ideas (that are mostly pofa's ideas) to throw in:

Toichi, Magician
Night Action: Steal
Day Action: White Suitcase
Interrogation: Not BO
Scent: No
Disguise: Yes
Items: Car Keys, Headgear, Glasses, Gun
Observe: Adult
Note: If Kid is disguised as Toichi, he cannot use both steals on the same person in one night.

White Suitcase
Not investigatable.
- Role with action: Toichi
- Day action
- Can be frightened
- Each day, Toichi must let the GM know if he wants to use the White Suitcase. If he sends in this action, he will be notified of a random action (by keyword) he can use for that night. For example, he will be told he can investigate - in that case he can Investigate OR Special Investigate (see below for all keywords of actions he can use).
- Cannot use arresting actions, killing actions, passive actions, or anything not listed in the keywords below.
- At the start of Night 1, the GM will automatically assign the player a keyword for that night. After that, the player will need to tell the GM if they want to use the White Suitcase each day phase in order to have an ability the following night. If the player does not tell the GM, then they will not be given an ability. (So if, during Day 1, the player does not tell the GM they want to use the White Suitcase, they will not have an ability for Night 2.)

Investigate: Investigate 5 OR Special Investigate 2
Observe: Observe OR Stake-Out
Protect: Protect OR Snipe Guard
Heal: Heal OR First Aid
Discombobulate: Discombobulate
Detect: Detect
Interrogate: Interrogate OR Cross-Examine

---

Aaaaand, mostly based on his MM role:

Amuro, Professional Sandwich Maker

Wait, that's not right.

Amuro, Detective's Apprentice
Night Action: Observe OR Special Investigate 1
Night Action: Frighten
Interrogation: Yes
Scent: Yes
Disguise: Yes
Items: Gun, Car Keys, Alcohol
Observe: Adult
Note: Bourbon and Amuro may not be in the same game unless Amuro is a disguise. Anokata may not be Amuro if Bourbon is in the game.

Discuss! (Also, I threw in Inv 5/SI 2 for White Suitcase because it felt the most balanced to me personally, but PLEASE feel free to discuss numbers on that one.)

When it comes to Toichi, if he gets approved, I highly suggest that GMs use caution when making Anokata or Vermouth disguise as Toichi.

Slight adjustment made because I'm a dope who forgot Frighten is a night action.

[pofa]

I'm late to this so sorry if I didn't read over carefully enough and missed something, but I was talking in mm about other possible ways to handle Day Protect if we still want it around:

1) Continue to allow Day Protect to cover large groups of people, but have a one-successful-use limit. (So Ran could protect 7 people a day, but if she saves one of them she can't Day Protect anymore.) In return, Day Protect doesn't injure upon successful use like Night Protect does. The action simply can't be used again afterward, similar to Kazuha's charm.

2. Actually make Day Protect a charm that leaves a notice identical to Kazuha's charm. Ran/makoto have a charm that protects from lynch, while Kazuha's protects from APTX. (The protector could only day protect one person at a time in this case but could also give the charm to themself).

I'm in favor of giving Protectors the Stalk option during the day, because without it Protect is really a worse heal. D: It'd be nice to have some info about who you're protecting in return for the threat of injury if your night action works. So if Day protect stays on, I'd make it Day Action: Protect (or Protect-Charm if it's that) OR Stalk?

Edit: The reason I thought the "one successful use" thing might be helpful for Day Protect was that there was a concern that even with injury, it could delay successive lynchings of BO (or townies, but mostly BO), so in case it was unclear why I was suggesting that. Since the "won't work again for 2 phases after success" thing is supposed to be powerful enough to let lovers survive the entire game, it's pretty powerful if a whole team has it for repeated use.

[Yurikochan]

I'm late to this so sorry if I didn't read over carefully enough and missed something, but I was talking in mm about other possible ways to handle Day Protect if we still want it around:

1) Continue to allow Day Protect to cover large groups of people, but have a one-successful-use limit. (So Ran could protect 7 people a day, but if she saves one of them she can't Day Protect anymore.) In return, Day Protect doesn't injure upon successful use like Night Protect does. The action simply can't be used again afterward, similar to Kazuha's charm.

2. Actually make Day Protect a charm that leaves a notice identical to Kazuha's charm. Ran/makoto have a charm that protects from lynch, while Kazuha's protects from APTX. (The protector could only day protect one person at a time in this case but could also give the charm to themself).

I'm in favor of giving Protectors the Stalk option during the day, because without it Protect is really a worse heal. D: It'd be nice to have some info about who you're protecting in return for the threat of injury if your night action works. So if Day protect stays on, I'd make it Day Action: Protect (or Protect-Charm if it's that) OR Stalk?

Edit: The reason I thought the "one successful use" thing might be helpful for Day Protect was that there was a concern that even with injury, it could delay successive lynchings of BO (or townies, but mostly BO), so in case it was unclear why I was suggesting that. Since the "won't work again for 2 phases after success" thing is supposed to be powerful enough to let lovers survive the entire game, it's pretty powerful if a whole team has it for repeated use.

I'm in agreement with both pofa's suggestions.

And I'd like to try Toichi and Amuro out too, if it doesn't work we can always change them up. I don't think Toichi should be Anokata/Vermy though cause it seems like it could give a BO with Toichi disguiser/Calvados way too much information, but could protect BO roles, so maybe we can give it a try to see or something too :x

[Raiden]

I don't mind trying out Toichi and Amuro for FM.
(Btw, the additional note to Toichi is a bit redundant since the rules for Steal already prevent stealing from same person twice the same night. "- Can steal one item from one person per night. Can steal from that person again on the next night.". I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry though. ^^')

I don't mind adding Stalk to Ran/Makoto either, gives them something more to do than just protect (which is a lesser version of heal) and makes the capable of get some intel. Don't know about adding items to the Stalk result, maybe try without first?

Adding in Amuro with Frighten also give an appropriate role for Tequila to pretend to be.

[PT]

Yeah, I'd rather have additional notes so that people may actually read them at least once. Better safe than sorry.

[Kamite]

Since we are adding MK characters, why not add Aoko?

Aoko, Anti-Kid
Night Action: Pinchface and Investigate x 2
Interrogation: Not BO
Scent: No
Disguise: Yes
Items: Panties, SchoolBook
Observe: Teen

At least this way we can give Nakamori more cover.

[PT]

This is just my personal opinion, but I don't really think Nakamori needs cover. He's not easy to poison. Sure, if he pinches the wrong person, the BO will know that someone is pinching people, but that just means it could be Nakamori or it could be Kid-Nakamori or it could be Yukiko-Nakamori. Even if they detect Nakamori and it comes up true, he's not easy to find. He's an adult male with only a gun and car keys (which most of the cops are and have). Unless he just goes and tells someone "hey, I pinched you," then the BO isn't gonna have an easy time finding him.

I would be okay with putting Aoko in, but not with pinchface (UNLESS we make it so that it doesn't auto-arrest). And let's be real here, a teenage girl with no items in common with Nakamori isn't going to give him any cover.

[KangarooGirl]

Toichi sounds cool I'd love to try it out. I feel like his role being so versatile that 5 investigate and 2 SI is a bit much? Even with the steal being a crime I'm not sure if it's too OP'd. I'd go with 3 investigate and 1 SI personally.

I like the one off day protect (but for one person) over the charm-protect. Unless people want to give Kazuha cover by having another ability leaving a charm notice, I'd rather it not leave a notice at all.

Which brings me to the next point: it's okay to not have cover for every single role. Seriously it's better if a role is as strong as having an auto arrest like Nakamori and being so hard to find he doesn't need it. Kazuha is strong in her own right too being able to reduce the BO aptx count by 33% and potentially preventing a fair few deaths so it's probably fine if she doesn't end up having cover from the protectors imo.

Edit: Made following changes to the rule set
- All protectors now have Stalk and Sera changed from trickster to Protect/Stalk
- Kazuha can now charm herself more than once
- Temporarily changed day protect to only being able to protect one person
- Clarified some rules on Slander (realised it was broken only just now :x)

Also I've finished up writing the proposed rules for "Experiment" if people want to look at it.

[Kleene Onigiri]

I don't like that stalk was added to the protectors. From the BO point of view, protectors were always already annoying, but you were able to skip on killing them and target the more dangerous ones like the police.
Now Protectors can even stalk and leave a notice? Isn't that too powerful? Protectors are even better/almost as good as FBI now? How are BO supposed to figure out who is a Protector or Haibara etc.? Especially since there are no rules that the BO is supposed to have a fixed amount of info gatherers?

Not every player can just contact a town and instantly figure out what role they have... like some people here who discuss the rules :x


@new town roles:
I' fine with the settings. (tho I agree with hope, that Inv3 and SI1 would be better)
But I'm against adding new town roles in general? There are tons of Town roles now and over the time, almost no new BOs were added. So it's out of balance at the moment.
More town = worse conditions for APTXing. Especially with the new town changes now too, where the protectors are better hidden with the stalk too.
The amount of BO is also calculated with them being able to APTX some people I think? But if they can't do that, it's unbalanced?

And Sherry is still really useless imo, even with that experiment (I just don't find her that strong or useful at all :/ )
And in contrast to that the town get's stronger more and more with protectors and sera and all those new character ideas? XD


Just my thoughts on that XD Opinions vary

[Stopwatch]

Maybe add shadowman!BO if you think the Mafia needs more options? :x This was half a joke, but eh, maybe it could be considered.

[Raiden]

Maybe add shadowman!BO if you think the Mafia needs more options? :x This was half a joke, but eh, maybe it could be considered.

Shadowman, Serial Killer
Night Action: Backup
Day Action: Stalk
Interrogation: Yes
Scent: No
Disguise: No
Items: Gun, Car Keys, Alcohol
Gender: Interchangeable*
Observe: Adult
Note: If Shadowman is Gender-Observed and/or Stalked, the Observer/Stalker gets a random result (either Female or Male). Shadowman can't be Gender-Observed/Stalked by the same person twice (but if done anyway, that person would get the same result they got last time).


*Flees*

[PT]

I don't like that stalk was added to the protectors. From the BO point of view, protectors were always already annoying, but you were able to skip on killing them and target the more dangerous ones like the police.
Now Protectors can even stalk and leave a notice? Isn't that too powerful? Protectors are even better/almost as good as FBI now? How are BO supposed to figure out who is a Protector or Haibara etc.? Especially since there are no rules that the BO is supposed to have a fixed amount of info gatherers?

Protect actually got nerfed quite a bit when it changed from finding the killer to being temporarily injured. Now if they successfully protect, they can't do anything execpt vote for a few phases. And, of course, if they protect and victim is sniped, they die instead. So... I don't really think they're THAT big of a threat anymore? They're weaker than Araide, at any rate. I don't like that everything is leaving a notice these days, though. We definitely need to do something about that.

@new town roles:
I' fine with the settings. (tho I agree with hope, that Inv3 and SI1 would be better)
But I'm against adding new town roles in general? There are tons of Town roles now and over the time, almost no new BOs were added. So it's out of balance at the moment.
More town = worse conditions for APTXing. Especially with the new town changes now too, where the protectors are better hidden with the stalk too.
The amount of BO is also calculated with them being able to APTX some people I think? But if they can't do that, it's unbalanced?

And Sherry is still really useless imo, even with that experiment (I just don't find her that strong or useful at all :/ )
And in contrast to that the town get's stronger more and more with protectors and sera and all those new character ideas? XD

Yeah, should probably stick with Inv 3 or SI 1 if he does get added in. ^^; (And I would say get rid of one of the town tricksters, but nobody can agree on which one to get rid of, so that's kind of a game-by-game basis. Asami gives Eisuke cover, Yoko gives Vodka cover and makes the tricksters easier to poison in general if someone can figure out they're the trickster. I also am of the opinion that not every town role needs a duplicate for cover purposes. So. If we differentiate roles a bit more, then maybe that will solve the APTX problem? It doesn't have to be big changes, just... idk. Something. We can leave a few, like Chiba/Takagi and Heiji/Shinichi, but otherwise...)

The problem with adding new BO roles is that there just aren't that many options - especially since we try to avoid spoiling things. Sherry (who is in the game but kind of sucks right now), Rye (which I would not be against if someone can come up with an idea for him!), and...

Maybe add shadowman!BO if you think the Mafia needs more options? :x This was half a joke, but eh, maybe it could be considered.

Shadowman, Serial Killer
Night Action: Backup
Day Action: Stalk
Interrogation: Yes
Scent: No
Disguise: Yes
Items: Gun, Car Keys, Alcohol
Observe: Adult



*Flees*

I am okay with this. XD Although BO roles are not disguise-able by default, so.

And then there are the ones with real names, I guess. Or we could put a Kir alternate in. I am seriously open to ideas. I want new BO roles. Good ones, perferably.

Random idea: what about removing the notice from stalk? That would get rid of the big problem of everyone leaving follow notices these days. That would drop it down to just... Haibara, Kazuha and Pisco, right? That's not a bad list.

[PT]

*double posting to throw a new idea in*

Rye, Mafia Hunter
Night action: Investigate 3
Night/Day action: Vengeance
Interrogation: Not BO
Scent: Yes
Disguise: No
Items: Gun, Car Keys, Headgear, Alcohol
Observe: Adult

*flees*

(Obviously he wouldn't be allowed in the same game as Akai.)