Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Stopwatch]

Maybe not getting to choose her own costume though...

Ah, meant it, like she also get's a list like Irish and can choose one of them (or is that what you meant too?)

Ah, okay then. I thought you were saying she got to pick the costumes from the start, not from the normal GM list. Sorry for misunderstanding .

[KangarooGirl]

Maybe not getting to choose her own costume though...

-Anokata: I have a new idea
-Killing actions: Yes or no?
-APTX: Set amount or rechargeable?
-BM: Do we like it?
-Are there any roles that people hate so much that it would make you feel better if we removed them until we figure out how to make them more fun? *looks at Kogoro, Pisco, etc.*

Let's see. While I prefer the current Anokata because he has the ultimate infiltrating role if played correctly I get your point about how no action has stuck for him so trying out something new could be useful. So, yes.
KA, I like them, but most others don't D:. It'll probably end up with them still out I guess.
APTX, rechargeable all the way for me. Both ways the BO have incentive to get the current APTX, but if there's only a set amount then the BO can lose out because they figured out roles earlier on. I think if they figure out the right roles in (most) circumstances they should be able to get them renewed.
And I love the BM. I'd like it kept in if possible.

I like killing actions but it ends up making things a little too easy for BO I think. Same with BM. We're strengthening Anokata and Vermouth quite a bit and unless the game ends up being massive (like 25+ people), BM and killing actions mean less BO and each BO lost has an immense impact and tends to turn the tide towards the town. It'd be easier to balance a regular sized game without the two imo.

Definitely recharge APTX I think. I think 3 APTXes per day as it was before is good. makes the BO think on the order of APTX and strategy is more important than luck.

Without blame, wouldn't CE be a lot stronger too now? (is CE in? XD)

Maybe give Vermy the freedom to put her disguise on and off whenever she wants (but still has a crime from the beginning). But not like Irish, she doesn't loose her disguise once she takes it off (but can disguise as the same role again later)
To not make it too powerful, she has to keep a disguise 2 phases long once she put it on, but can put disguises back on without delay.
Maybe this, added with the choosing which role she can disguise as. Or she has 2 set roles she has from the start (and it doesn't change once it's used like Irish's one)

Honestly I think this adds to the power if she can put it back on without delay. Vermouth can go "OMG I JUST FOUND OUT I'M GETTING INTERROGATED SO I WANT THE DISGUISE ON D:" One phase delay I think should be fine. Not sure why she would want to take off the disguise though unless she knew she was going to get checked that phase and most people would check the ability and disguise on the same phase (or maybe that's just me :V)

[Kleene Onigiri]

To not make it too powerful, she has to keep a disguise 2 phases long once she put it on, but can put disguises back on without delay.
Maybe this, added with the choosing which role she can disguise as. Or she has 2 set roles she has from the start (and it doesn't change once it's used like Irish's one)

Honestly I think this adds to the power if she can put it back on without delay. Vermouth can go "OMG I JUST FOUND OUT I'M GETTING INTERROGATED SO I WANT THE DISGUISE ON D:" One phase delay I think should be fine. Not sure why she would want to take off the disguise though unless she knew she was going to get checked that phase and most people would check the ability and disguise on the same phase (or maybe that's just me :V)

I thought it's better to put in a delay for taking it off again, because the "time"/"chance" to arrest Vermouth when she's disguised is longer. (otherwise you'd need to say which phase she was disguised as who, and people will likely just go for the current phase they are in atm)
And when she will be interrogated on a phase, then the disguise will just be put on the next phase :V ("without delay" meant, she doesn't have to wait 2 phases before she can give the order to get disguised again) So even if she knew she would be interrogated on the current phase, putting back on the disguise won't help her XD Since she won't have it on on that phase (it'll be next phase first)

Also, I think it'll be harder to coordinate a strategy when Vermouth isn't allowed to put her disguise back on again. Since situations change a lot where her ability would be needed D:

[KangarooGirl]

See when you said "without delay" I thought you meant on the same phase. And that's why I said 1 phase delay which ended up being the same thing as what you were trying to say

I meant to keep the disguise for at least 2 phases as well I didn't mean to imply to take that part off.

As to your last point, why then would Vermouth want to take off her disguise?? Unless you meant in the case where she wants to switch to a different disguise as per your original suggestion of having 2 set ones to choose from during the game.

[Stopwatch]

See when you said "without delay" I thought you meant on the same phase. And that's why I said 1 phase delay which ended up being the same thing as what you were trying to say

I meant to keep the disguise for at least 2 phases as well I didn't mean to imply to take that part off.

As to your last point, why then would Vermouth want to take off her disguise?? Unless you meant in the case where she wants to switch to a different disguise as per your original suggestion of having 2 set ones to choose from during the game.

She might want to take it off if she's being checked for disguises by inv'ers or Nakamori. Say, if was Vermouth-Kazuha she could follow an inv'er during the day then take off her disguise so when checked for being disguised as Haibs/Kazuha it wouldn't be true...? Then again, switching disguises would also fix that. Nakamori would still work though.

[PT]

Nobody would check her being disguised as Haibara, just saying.

[Stopwatch]

Nobody would check her being disguised as Haibara, just saying.

...

...

*fails*

[pofa]

So by anonymous suggestion by PM as well as discussion here, here's what I'm feeling:

Most people feel that the Anokata idea is pretty good, and might also be in favor of upping Vermouth's power.
Most people feel that for a smaller game, the killing actions and the BM might OP the BO. Right now we're up to 16, so we'll see how things go.
Most people like rechargeable APTX better than the set number of one-times. If this is the case, should I cut the number of simultaneous possible APTXs to 2 rather than 3? (And then give the BO one "backup" to replace a lost one so they still have 3 possible wrong guesses?) 3 rechargeable poisons a day is going to get pretty nuclear in a small game, but on the other hand, maybe you guys feel like the town would deserve it if the BO got that much info out of them? :x

Also, about CE--without blame, it is pretty strong. Do you trust me to take its power into account when I balance, or would you rather nerf it a little beforehand? Maybe it leaves a notice when it's used or something? "You were called into court to testify and found guilty..." XD

[Stopwatch]

Interesting
Well, with the KA it's fairly obvious they're not going to be in anyway but I would miss the BM D:, oh well X:
Personally I'm for 3 APTXs but I'm also pretty biased so~ I don't care so much though... maybe a rough vote in here'd be useful? I don't know :x

[KangarooGirl]

@pofa: Nah, if the BO can pull off 3 APTXes in one phase, the town deserves it imo.

RE: CE I think it's strong but its main strength is later in the game. If people feel like it needs to be nerfed I like the notification thing. It makes it more like Haibara's which is similarly strong as well.

Although maybe my input shouldn't matter as much as someone who actually plays FM still :x

[Kleene Onigiri]

@hopey: Yeah, reread my post and noticed that I wrote "without delay" XD Sorry for the misunderstanding XD
And what stop said, against investigations/Nakamori etc.

@APTX: I'm for 3 too. Because the BO should just use 3 at once when they are confident. So if they fail, it's their own fault too. ANd if they get a lot of town info, it's the towns own fault.

@CE: The notification would be good I guess? Since it's strength is similar to haibs follow, getting the notification would be similar to that too then.
You could make pinch-face and CE the same notification maybe, to protect the town roles a bit?

[pofa]

*points to game thread*

I've listed the changes I've made there.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

I'm wondering if I should add Sera in my round
and steal some changes of the last cause I liked them
I already have something for her in mind which we could discuss.

Spoiler: Sera

Day action: Stalk
Day/Night Action: Protect
Interrogation: Not BO
Scent: No
Disguise: Yes
Items: School book, Panties, Headgear
Observe: Teenager
Note: When gender observed, there is a 50% chance the observer will become confused and sees her as male.

Spoiler: Stalk

Not investigatable
- Role with that action: Sera
- Day action
- Sera will stalk a person and will learn a random fact about him/her. She can either notice the persons gender or age. Since the results are random, if she stalks the same person twice she might get the same results. 
- Sera can’t detect a scent or know their interrogation result.
- If Sera stalks, the person who got stalked will hear he/she’s been followed.
- Can be frightened, in which case the player will receive an "action failed" message.

I took out the Jeet-Kune-Do because for now it still seems too powerful.
Maybe the next time?
We'll see.

[KangarooGirl]

I still feel like she's more powerful than Ran if she has both protect and something else and we kinda try to avoid one role being too obviously better than another. How about protect OR stalk? Just one of the two in each night/day phase? That may offset the gender confusion bonus and being defensive+offensive

[Iwamoto Yuri]

ooh, I didn't think if that, that's a good idea.
but I still think stalk should be day only, otherwise everyone would know sera is in the game the first time she'd use stalk in the night...
that would make the option for day stalk or protect and night just protect
how does that sound?