Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Iwamoto Yuri]

she already is injured during the 2 following night phases after the jkd is used, and we could take the inv away, :3
we could also limit her seeing the role to just the age/gender of her attacker?

[Conia]

Auto-Self-Protection is too powerful no matter how you see it You can make Sera a Protector+Metantei though, I don't particularly feel we need her in the game but if we get something good to work, yay \o/ I also like Stalk (hurr hurr :V) but it need to be toned down too.
Btw,

Spoiler: Manga

I'm not sure if I'd say Sera doesn't have a scent

[Iwamoto Yuri]

but Haibara didn't act weird around her right..?
(or did she...)
we could take away the items part from the stalk I gess?
meh, I liked the JKD...

[Conia]

I liked Gin with Detain :V But it is too powerful, maybe she can use Jeet Kune Do on townies that she knows (Ran, Conan, Haibara, Sonoko, Akai?) so apart from sending the JKD she needs to provide correctly the role of the persos being protected. And if she's wrong, she loses JKD?

[Kleene Onigiri]

Seems overpowered.

Stalk is basically a better steal - potential to see an item, target won't be notified and it isn't a crime. The odds of getting the same results twice is kinda slim (considering she can also see age or gender), so that's not much to help it seem less powerful.

Depends on the role a bit.

Like, you can see panties and the next night, observe someone as female. Even tho it's not the same result, it's the same information.

Like Takagi: He's male and an adult. And got the Items Gun and Car-Keys.
The chance to get Car-Keys would be 1/4 then. But the chance to get the information that it's an adult is 2/4, so 1/2. So getting the information twice in a row is high with that role.

Whether someone like Akai would be: Male, Adult and Gun, Car-keys, Headgear, Alcohol.
So the chance to get the information "adult" would be 2/6. So to get the same information twice in a row is smaller here :V

The down side for her is, that the person also get's informed about being followed. So if she finds a BO, the BO has the chance to figure out who it was (because you usually would need to get followed at least 2x without additional info about the person, like actions, to know it's BO)

That on its own would be alright, but when you include JKD, which not only means she can die right away, it gives away a BO role.... she's a pretty powerful role right there. And then Inv 1 on top of it?

I dunno.

Take away Inv1, and either 1) make her injured during the 2 following phases when she can't use JKD again, and then she can only find one BO role through this method OR 2) make JKD only usable once altogether OR 3) make her not see a BO role at all and she can stay uninjured.

Just my suggestion. I know I wouldn't want to be BO against that powerful of a role. She's like half the town rolled into one.

I first planned for her just to have stalk and JKD (it already got a abbreviation \o/)

Having Investigate on her could be too powerful. Like a BO claims a ability and then stalk reveals a contradicting item or observe.
It would also make Sera weaker towards getting spotted. Because she can't claim a night action and thus would be outed as a day action user, and there aren't too many.

Well, instead of finding out the Role with JKD, she could instead get the gender? (like the FU thing) and have a 2 night cool down on the JKD.
I prefer if she finds out the role tho :x

For me it would be:
No investigate.
Stalk.
JKD: Role or Gender. 2 Nights cool down.

[Akonyl]

I still like the idea I threw out a while ago of Sera being a sort of wildcard role, who during prep phase gets to choose whether she wants her night ability for the rest of the game to be "Protect x1" or "Interrogate x1" (or, rather than interrogate, whatever detective-y ability you want her to be able to choose) :V

not overpowered because you have to lock yourself in at the start of the game, but still a sort of "yay I got Sera" feeling because you get to choose your role in a sense.

or, going the JKD route, sort of what PT suggested, it probably wouldn't be too bad if she didn't learn the role of the attacker. With current Protect, it's already pretty useful, but it has the downside that you might end up getting killed before you're able to successfully protect someone, a downside that self-protection doesn't have.

although (though this is really just speaking from a perspective as if I was implementing it in botfia), I think that abilities that are so similar to one another yet have their own sets of rules should be avoided when possible. Case in point: how JKD tries to be protect, but has to have different special cases because protect has a lot of "if X happens to the target, Y happens to the protector", which obviously doesn't apply to JKD. But even aside from botfia-relatedness, I feel like it also contributes to the Mafia rules becoming a towering behemoth which has a shadow large enough to terrify newbies.

I'd probably just make it something like:

JKD
player protects self
not investigatable
- JKD follows all rules of Heal, except that it cannot be used on others and it has the "Protect" keyword instead.

which is a lot easier to read and understand than a whole new set of rules and thinking "okay, exactly which parts of these differ from this other ability and which are the same"?

[Kleene Onigiri]

Then you'd need to say "player heals self"
Because if it says protect, and then heal, it's also confusing XD

Also, it's a passive. It doesn't acutally need to say "player protects self"

JKD
not investigatable
- When attacked, Sera protects herself and won't be killed.
(maybe) - Sera will get to know the attackers Role/Gender
- If successfully triggered, she can't use JKD for the next 2 nights.
- She won't survive when she was:
Sniped
Tricked and attacked
Bribed

[Iwamoto Yuri]

you forgot to mention she also can't use her other actions
or aren't we doing that anymore..?
otherwise she'd be too powerful

also, I think she shouldn't see the role but just the gender or age
that way her info will be more limited

[Akonyl]

Then you'd need to say "player heals self"
Because if it says protect, and then heal, it's also confusing XD

Also, it's a passive. It doesn't acutally need to say "player protects self"

I don't really see how it's confusing, not like the keyword is actually tied to how the ability works. I'm certain that a newbie would understand "oh, this is a self-heal, but it's a protect instead", rather than reading yet another set of rules/exceptions that only varies ever-so-slightly from a different ability.

and going with what yuri posted for it earlier, I don't see it listed anywhere that it's passive you're right that it doesn't need the "player protects self" line though (as it's not investigatable, so it doesn't really need a keyword in the first place), I just included that as it was part of the template in the post I was referencing.

[Kleene Onigiri]

It was intended to be passive :V At least it was discussed in IRC to be passive :x

I dunno, being injured and not being able to stalk anymore is kinda meh too. She's more intended to be a info-gathering role :V
I prefer 1-time-JKD over injured then D:

[Iwamoto Yuri]

ah...
ok... then she'd still be able to stalk..? but it's a pretty powerful move :v

[Kleene Onigiri]

We're trying out Sera in MM atm :3 Join! \o/

[Iwamoto Yuri]

can't, need to work tomorrow :v
maaah, stupid bed time.. *should already be sleeping*
why can't we just test it tomorrow D:

[Stopwatch]

So, thought it'd be helpful to note down the current MM!Sera and her actions that we're testing out.

Sera

Spoiler:

Day action: Stalk
Night Action: Jeet-Kune-Do (Passive)
Interrogation: Not BO
Scent: No
Disguise: Yes
Items: School book, Panties, Headgear
Observe: Teenager
Note: When gender observed, there is a 50% chance the observer will become confused and sees her as male.

Jeet-Kune-Do

Spoiler:

Not Investigatable
- Roles with Action: Sera
- Night action, can't be covered
- Protect/Lovey-Dovey/Bone Breaking/Jeet-Kun-Do is handled as the same action when investigated/stake-out
- If Sera is attacked during Night Phase, she will protect herself and will learn the role of the attacker. The attacker will learn that the target was protected.
- Penalties:
- JKD is a one time protection. Once it has been successfully used, it stops working.
- If Ran or Makoto protects Sera, in the case she hasn’t been attacked previously, only Jeet-Kun-Do will be triggered. Only Sera will learn the attackers role and the protector will be told that the protection succeeded.
- If discombobulated the protection will fail.
- If Sera gets sniped or Poisoned, Jeet-Kune-Do will have no effect and she will die.
- Lovey Dovey > Bone Breaker > Jeet-Kune-Do > Watch protection > Protect > Heal > First Aid

Stalk

Spoiler:

Not investigatable
- Role with that action: Sera
- Day action
- Sera will stalk a person and will learn a random fact about him/her. She can either see an object, or notice the persons gender or age. Since the results are random, if she stalks the same person twice she might get the same results. 
- Sera can’t detect a scent or know their interrogation result.
- If Sera stalks, the person who got stalked will hear he/she’s been followed.
- Can be frightened, in which case the player will receive an "action failed" message.

We've also been trying out Akonyl's idea for Sera, but as Akako so we could try them in the same game.

[KangarooGirl]

I thought we were going to make JKD a "heal"? Or is it a protection but uses rules of heal :x