Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[pofa]

@For those interested in Akemi or Kid stealing from Okiya/Bourbon/Akai: The suggestion was that if Kid steals from Okiya, Akai, or Bourbon, he finds out that they have no boxers and falls out of the air in shock, injuring himself, and that if Akemi steals from them, she falls in love and can't kill that person even if Anokata orders her to. And it was also a complete and total joke. XD

@Yamamura: OK, that situation makes sense. Guess it should be un-discombobulateable in that case, to save headaches. About him also, does he get notified if he confused someone who was discombobulated, so (I assume) couldn't redirect their action, or if he confuses someone who doesn't have an action with a target that night? I'm assuming he doesn't and just gets notified if his own attempt went through successfully or not (as a discombobulator would).

Another question that I can't find in the rules: If a BO attacks someone who is protected by the watch, is the BO still able to be arrested for the attack? If we're treating it as "protect," probably so? And same question about snipe guard; if Akai injures a sniper the attack order shouldn't go through and shouldn't be able to be arrested for it right? Or does it?

I also forgot to mention that I really want to make passive abilities (watch, betrayal, vengeance, revenge) discombobulatable. Only exception to the passive abilities being trickable would be disguise.

There's also the question of house search. Right now, HS is trickable and detain is not (at least if it is, I can't find it in the rules). So...detain is better than House Search, and yet has no penalty besides losing a couple of investigations. >.> I kinda don't like that. Would anyone object to house search NOT being trickable? And maybe adding in a clause that says that if the house searcher is HSing the BO who is about to kill him, the HS goes through and the officer isn't killed? (If he's being killed by a BO other than the person he's HSing it doesn't go through and he dies?) Would that totally mess with the balance of the game?

[Akonyl]

@Yamamura: OK, that situation makes sense. Guess it should be un-discombobulateable in that case, to save headaches. About him also, does he get notified if he confused someone who was discombobulated, so (I assume) couldn't redirect their action, or if he confuses someone who doesn't have an action with a target that night? I'm assuming he doesn't and just gets notified if his own attempt went through successfully or not (as a discombobulator would).

In the original rules I had for it, Yamamura's confuse happened wholesale before discombobulation actions were considered (to make sure he was out of the picture once the discombobulators started beating eachother up)(this is also why he's "immune", it's not so much that he's "immune" to tricking as it is that he just goes first anyway), so if Yamamura confused Eisuke and caused him to discombobulate Gin, however Vodka was discombobulating Eisuke, Yamamura's confuse would go off, Yamamura would be told "You successfully confused Eisuke", then Eisuke would try to bob Gin but would be bobbed by Vodka instead, causing Eisuke to receive "You were discombobulated" and not perform his action after all. Yamamura, though he switched Eisuke's target, wouldn't be notified of his failure to do anything, because he was taken care of beforehand.

@ the watch, because the watch is destroyed, there's obvious evidence that the attack did happen after all, so I would think it would be investigatable. As for Akai though, since the idea is that the Sniper didn't manage to get their shot off (or else the target would be dead), I feel like in that case there should be no recorded attack because Akai got to them first. Although I think somewhere (when I gave snipe guard the Attack keyword), I mention in an example that the sniper is counted as attacking. So, I'm not sure on that one.

[pofa]

Another question I had: If Kogoro (or now Yusaku) analyzes an interrogation that was slandered, but the slander happened under Cloak of Deception, what happens? Does he still get the true result or the "cloaked" slander result (assuming he analyzes the interrogation within CoD's time limit).

[Akonyl]

depends on how Analyze is worded I would think, if it said "shows whether or not an interrogation was slandered", it wouldn't reveal a cloaked slander (and would also get confused by BSed slanders then I would think), but if it just says "returns the true interrogation result of someone previously interrogated", it wouldn't be affected by a cloaked slander.

[Raiden]

@For those interested in Akemi or Kid stealing from Okiya/Bourbon/Akai: The suggestion was that if Kid steals from Okiya, Akai, or Bourbon, he finds out that they have no boxers and falls out of the air in shock, injuring himself, and that if Akemi steals from them, she falls in love and can't kill that person even if Anokata orders her to. And it was also a complete and total joke. XD

I know, still think it's too awesome a joke not to take seriously! <3

I'll totally GM a game one day which'll include that rule change, just for the sheer hilarity of it. XD

_{(It'll also give Akemi a bit of an OMPH! Vodka won't be the only one to overrule Anokata's kill order then. XD)}

[Kleene Onigiri]

Another question that I can't find in the rules: If a BO attacks someone who is protected by the watch, is the BO still able to be arrested for the attack? If we're treating it as "protect," probably so? And same question about snipe guard; if Akai injures a sniper the attack order shouldn't go through and shouldn't be able to be arrested for it right? Or does it?

Usually, attacks count even as "attempted attacks". So all healed/protected attacks are still arrestable. Only exception are tricked ones, because you didn't manage to even attempt the attack, thus "no evidence" meaning no arrest.
So should be arrested when the watch protected.
For injure, it depends on the rule for injures. If the injure comes first and all other actions fail from the target, then it's like there was no attack attempt, since the attacker didn't manage to do anything.
If the injure comes after the actions (so, like investigates would have gone through too), then there was also an attempt. IMO XD

There's also the question of house search. Right now, HS is trickable and detain is not (at least if it is, I can't find it in the rules). So...detain is better than House Search, and yet has no penalty besides losing a couple of investigations. >.> I kinda don't like that. Would anyone object to house search NOT being trickable? And maybe adding in a clause that says that if the house searcher is HSing the BO who is about to kill him, the HS goes through and the officer isn't killed? (If he's being killed by a BO other than the person he's HSing it doesn't go through and he dies?) Would that totally mess with the balance of the game?

I object D: HS shouldn't be immune to tricking whatsoever. We had that once and it was too powerful.
Why don't you make detention trickable or give it some penalty instead?

[pofa]

@the attacks: I think I agree, Kleene. ^^ In the case of injury, actions don't go through, so I think I'll make it that the attack never went through (and therefore killing action won't go through if you get caught by snipe guard). Even though it investigates as protect, I think it's different from a normal protect in that way.

@HS: Well, someone suggested that we make the stipulation that a HS will go through IF the HS'er is HS'ing the BO who is trying to kill him. So if Vodka wants to kill Megure, who is HSing him, Vodka is arrested and Megure lives. But if Megure HS'es Vodka, and Gin kills Megure, the HS fails. And then leave HS as being trickable?

And at the same time, make detain trickable/frightenable.

[KangarooGirl]

@the attacks: I think I agree, Kleene. ^^ In the case of injury, actions don't go through, so I think I'll make it that the attack never went through (and therefore killing action won't go through if you get caught by snipe guard). Even though it investigates as protect, I think it's different from a normal protect in that way.

I always thought that while it was different in the sense that Akai attacks the sniper as well, I thought that the investigation for the original attack still goes through as a True so the killing action should as well?

@HS: Well, someone suggested that we make the stipulation that a HS will go through IF the HS'er is HS'ing the BO who is trying to kill him. So if Vodka wants to kill Megure, who is HSing him, Vodka is arrested and Megure lives. But if Megure HS'es Vodka, and Gin kills Megure, the HS fails. And then leave HS as being trickable?

And at the same time, make detain trickable/frightenable.

someone=me though I'm sure someone else said it before I did. Maybe Yuriko?

[Kleene Onigiri]

@the attacks: I think I agree, Kleene. ^^ In the case of injury, actions don't go through, so I think I'll make it that the attack never went through (and therefore killing action won't go through if you get caught by snipe guard). Even though it investigates as protect, I think it's different from a normal protect in that way.

@HS: Well, someone suggested that we make the stipulation that a HS will go through IF the HS'er is HS'ing the BO who is trying to kill him. So if Vodka wants to kill Megure, who is HSing him, Vodka is arrested and Megure lives. But if Megure HS'es Vodka, and Gin kills Megure, the HS fails. And then leave HS as being trickable?

And at the same time, make detain trickable/frightenable.

So if Gin kills Megure, Megure HSes Gin, but Eisuke the hero tricks Megure, Megure will die? XD
I'm fine with that :x

[Akonyl]

So if Gin kills Megure, Megure HSes Gin, but Eisuke the hero tricks Megure, Megure will die? XD
I'm fine with that :x

Eisuke: Defender of Justice

[Stopwatch]

XD

Hmm~ This is mostly to fellow BOs of last round, but what was your opinion on Blackmail being used to trick Satou/Kid-Satou via Anokata detaining himself? Would you say the penalty that you can't use any other actions yourself that phase works or is it still too overpowered?
And if it was changed to Anokata being able to get himself detained would that be even worse than the 'trick Satou' idea.
Personally, I like Blackmail as it is, but I'm biased so

[Conia]

It is too much of an exploit to use Detain as tricking+Hinder and with no penalty at all (Also, you can't Detain yourself, I thought?)

[Stopwatch]

No, I didn't explain correctly. Blackmail as it is allows you to attempt to channel a HS or Detain onto yourself, the penalty is that it tricks both of you so if it's... say, N1, when Anokata has the BS then none of those other actions go through. And, to be honest, there aren't that many points in a game when you can take advantage of the directing a detain onto yourself.

...besides, what do you mean by it can be used as a Hinder?

(I thought of using the idea to trick Satou/KID-Satou and get them to reveal themselves, also... if Anokata is doing other actions that day and they succeed then you know Satou or someone disguised as her isn't in )

[PT]

Honestly, the Blackmail Detain thing is strong, but can only be used once per game. Plus most of the other things you can do with Blackmail (barring Protect during the day to save a BO), aren't exactly that strong either. So it's really a limited usefulness.

[Yurikochan]

I still it's really powerful to let it work on things like house search/detain/releasing prisoners/ pinch ( all actions that can't be BSed. ) :x

The way I see it though it shows you the BO. :x