Least favorite character

[Kleene Onigiri]

Her not being able to sleep is usually shoved off by her "working till late night" and not that she's depressed.
That's also a bit annoying how they portrait her. In normal cases, she's not depressed and healthy.
Then a BO/major case appears and she's suddenly weak and depressed.

[Pmofmalasia]

Then she also totally panics when she just hears "BO" or is feeling them. This in itself isn't really bothering, since she is scared of them.
But what happens when she's directly confronted with a BO, like, face to face?
Totally scared of Gin, but on the rooftop with Gin pointing a gun at her she's all like: "Why, hello there babe"
Totally scared of Vermouth when she just feels her presence or hears anything about her.... confronted her on her own and is also "Why, hello there babe"...

But what I didn't like at all was in one case, where the husband wanted to kill his own wife, failed and regretted it.
Haibara said she couldn't forgive such a person at all, never. This said by a person that was in an evil Organization, creating poisons that killed people (which she also confirmed personally) and even getting her own sister killed because she was in that organization.
Yeah, not contradicting at all :x

Well I think that her trying to act like that in front of the BO is just her trying to put up a front, so that they don't think she's scared.  It's almost the same thing as when she met Conan, she tried to put up a front, and she only revealed her true feelings when she couldn't take what happened to her sister any longer.

Also, as for her being in the BO, we know that her parents were in it, so it wasn't her choice.  We also know that her original intent wasn't to make a poison with APTX.  She couldn't not continue development on APTX, or she would be killed.  And she didn't really have anything to do with the death of Akemi, I'm not really sure where you got that.

[Yuco-chan]

D:
Genta? Why? I like Genta! He reminds me of my little brother! Well my brother is not fat but he's cheeky and annoying and adorable and he loves food and he's...genta-ish!

Anyway~ My least favorite character would be Yamamura.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Then she also totally panics when she just hears "BO" or is feeling them. This in itself isn't really bothering, since she is scared of them.
But what happens when she's directly confronted with a BO, like, face to face?
Totally scared of Gin, but on the rooftop with Gin pointing a gun at her she's all like: "Why, hello there babe"
Totally scared of Vermouth when she just feels her presence or hears anything about her.... confronted her on her own and is also "Why, hello there babe"...

But what I didn't like at all was in one case, where the husband wanted to kill his own wife, failed and regretted it.
Haibara said she couldn't forgive such a person at all, never. This said by a person that was in an evil Organization, creating poisons that killed people (which she also confirmed personally) and even getting her own sister killed because she was in that organization.
Yeah, not contradicting at all :x

Well I think that her trying to act like that in front of the BO is just her trying to put up a front, so that they don't think she's scared.  It's almost the same thing as when she met Conan, she tried to put up a front, and she only revealed her true feelings when she couldn't take what happened to her sister any longer.

Also, as for her being in the BO, we know that her parents were in it, so it wasn't her choice.  We also know that her original intent wasn't to make a poison with APTX.  She couldn't not continue development on APTX, or she would be killed.  And she didn't really have anything to do with the death of Akemi, I'm not really sure where you got that.

Doesn't matter.

And you have the choice to make or not make poison. Sure, she was forced into the BO. But it was her pride and her curiosity that kept her going her. Whether she manages to go after her parents work and finish the research on the poison.
But that's also the point. She knows how it is to be forced into a bad situation. But still she can't forgive, acting all high and mighty.

Akemi wasn't in the BO as much as she was. She knows how the BO handles stuff, and she probably also knew that Akemi tried to free her. So she is indirectly also responsible for her death.

[Pmofmalasia]

Then she also totally panics when she just hears "BO" or is feeling them. This in itself isn't really bothering, since she is scared of them.
But what happens when she's directly confronted with a BO, like, face to face?
Totally scared of Gin, but on the rooftop with Gin pointing a gun at her she's all like: "Why, hello there babe"
Totally scared of Vermouth when she just feels her presence or hears anything about her.... confronted her on her own and is also "Why, hello there babe"...

But what I didn't like at all was in one case, where the husband wanted to kill his own wife, failed and regretted it.
Haibara said she couldn't forgive such a person at all, never. This said by a person that was in an evil Organization, creating poisons that killed people (which she also confirmed personally) and even getting her own sister killed because she was in that organization.
Yeah, not contradicting at all :x

Well I think that her trying to act like that in front of the BO is just her trying to put up a front, so that they don't think she's scared.  It's almost the same thing as when she met Conan, she tried to put up a front, and she only revealed her true feelings when she couldn't take what happened to her sister any longer.

Also, as for her being in the BO, we know that her parents were in it, so it wasn't her choice.  We also know that her original intent wasn't to make a poison with APTX.  She couldn't not continue development on APTX, or she would be killed.  And she didn't really have anything to do with the death of Akemi, I'm not really sure where you got that.

Doesn't matter.

And you have the choice to make or not make poison. Sure, she was forced into the BO. But it was her pride and her curiosity that kept her going her. Whether she manages to go after her parents work and finish the research on the poison.
But that's also the point. She knows how it is to be forced into a bad situation. But still she can't forgive, acting all high and mighty.

Akemi wasn't in the BO as much as she was. She knows how the BO handles stuff, and she probably also knew that Akemi tried to free her. So she is indirectly also responsible for her death.

Yes, but what she was trying to make wasn't a poison.  We know that APTX wasn't originally intended to be one, but in the process of reaching its true purpose, whatever that may be, test results found that it was an effective poison.  So the BO used it as one.  This likely wasn't something Haibara told them to do, as I believe, although I can't recall exactly where, Haibara says that she detested that they used it as a poison.  But even after they started using it as a poison, it doesn't seem that the research she continued on was to make it a more effective poison, but to continue trying to achieve the originally desired purpose.  I do see what you're saying about that particular case, but I can also see why Haibara wouldn't forgive him.  He had other ways out.  Divorce.  Possibly talking to his wife like a normal human being.  Her only options were work on APTX (can't really say how bad of an option that is, since we don't know its true intent) or die.

As for Akemi, I doubt Haibara knew that Akemi was trying to free her.  Like you said, Haibara knows the BO, and she also loves her sister, so there's no way that she would have let Akemi even try, especially because she knows how important she is to the BO.  Plus, she stated that the reason she refused to work was that she "demanded to know the reason behind her sister's death," but if she knew why she died from the start I don't think she would have phrased it like that.

[kkslider5552000]

And you have the choice to make or not make poison. Sure, she was forced into the BO. But it was her pride and her curiosity that kept her going her. Whether she manages to go after her parents work and finish the research on the poison.
But that's also the point. She knows how it is to be forced into a bad situation. But still she can't forgive, acting all high and mighty.

Akemi wasn't in the BO as much as she was. She knows how the BO handles stuff, and she probably also knew that Akemi tried to free her. So she is indirectly also responsible for her death.

None of this is ever stated or as far as I'm aware even hinted at. I mean maybe you can infer some of this if you like...get drunk and squint at it sideways?

Unless you're putting the blame on Haibara for...having a sister? No, that doesn't make sense. And even if it did, putting any blame on Haibara is needlessly cruel.

I genuinely feel dumber trying to figure this out.

[ProfParanoia]

And you have the choice to make or not make poison. Sure, she was forced into the BO. But it was her pride and her curiosity that kept her going her. Whether she manages to go after her parents work and finish the research on the poison.
But that's also the point. She knows how it is to be forced into a bad situation. But still she can't forgive, acting all high and mighty.

Akemi wasn't in the BO as much as she was. She knows how the BO handles stuff, and she probably also knew that Akemi tried to free her. So she is indirectly also responsible for her death.

None of this is ever stated or as far as I'm aware even hinted at. I mean maybe you can infer some of this if you like...get drunk and squint at it sideways?

Unless you're putting the blame on Haibara for...having a sister? No, that doesn't make sense. And even if it did, putting any blame on Haibara is needlessly cruel.

I genuinely feel dumber trying to figure this out.

[KK currently in this thread]

EDIT: and who is Ai supposed to forgive? The murders (Gin/Verm) or the FBI agent who used her sister in an illegal operation (who is now dead in result) and then proceeded to stalk Ai afterwards?

[Pmofmalasia]

And you have the choice to make or not make poison. Sure, she was forced into the BO. But it was her pride and her curiosity that kept her going her. Whether she manages to go after her parents work and finish the research on the poison.
But that's also the point. She knows how it is to be forced into a bad situation. But still she can't forgive, acting all high and mighty.

Akemi wasn't in the BO as much as she was. She knows how the BO handles stuff, and she probably also knew that Akemi tried to free her. So she is indirectly also responsible for her death.

None of this is ever stated or as far as I'm aware even hinted at. I mean maybe you can infer some of this if you like...get drunk and squint at it sideways?

Unless you're putting the blame on Haibara for...having a sister? No, that doesn't make sense. And even if it did, putting any blame on Haibara is needlessly cruel.

I genuinely feel dumber trying to figure this out.

[KK currently in this thread]

EDIT: and who is Ai supposed to forgive? The murders (Gin/Verm) or the FBI agent who used her sister in an illegal operation (who is now dead in result) and then proceeded to stalk Ai afterwards?

Kleene is talking about the case in which a husband attempts to kill his wife because he thinks she's crazy, it was one of the most recent anime cases where the DB have a barbeque with the husband and wife.  The husband then realizes afterward that what he's done is wrong, but Haibara doesn't forgive him.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Then she also totally panics when she just hears "BO" or is feeling them. This in itself isn't really bothering, since she is scared of them.
But what happens when she's directly confronted with a BO, like, face to face?
Totally scared of Gin, but on the rooftop with Gin pointing a gun at her she's all like: "Why, hello there babe"
Totally scared of Vermouth when she just feels her presence or hears anything about her.... confronted her on her own and is also "Why, hello there babe"...

But what I didn't like at all was in one case, where the husband wanted to kill his own wife, failed and regretted it.
Haibara said she couldn't forgive such a person at all, never. This said by a person that was in an evil Organization, creating poisons that killed people (which she also confirmed personally) and even getting her own sister killed because she was in that organization.
Yeah, not contradicting at all :x

Well I think that her trying to act like that in front of the BO is just her trying to put up a front, so that they don't think she's scared.  It's almost the same thing as when she met Conan, she tried to put up a front, and she only revealed her true feelings when she couldn't take what happened to her sister any longer.

Also, as for her being in the BO, we know that her parents were in it, so it wasn't her choice.  We also know that her original intent wasn't to make a poison with APTX.  She couldn't not continue development on APTX, or she would be killed.  And she didn't really have anything to do with the death of Akemi, I'm not really sure where you got that.

Doesn't matter.

And you have the choice to make or not make poison. Sure, she was forced into the BO. But it was her pride and her curiosity that kept her going her. Whether she manages to go after her parents work and finish the research on the poison.
But that's also the point. She knows how it is to be forced into a bad situation. But still she can't forgive, acting all high and mighty.

Akemi wasn't in the BO as much as she was. She knows how the BO handles stuff, and she probably also knew that Akemi tried to free her. So she is indirectly also responsible for her death.

Yes, but what she was trying to make wasn't a poison.  We know that APTX wasn't originally intended to be one, but in the process of reaching its true purpose, whatever that may be, test results found that it was an effective poison.  So the BO used it as one.  This likely wasn't something Haibara told them to do, as I believe, although I can't recall exactly where, Haibara says that she detested that they used it as a poison.  But even after they started using it as a poison, it doesn't seem that the research she continued on was to make it a more effective poison, but to continue trying to achieve the originally desired purpose.  I do see what you're saying about that particular case, but I can also see why Haibara wouldn't forgive him.  He had other ways out.  Divorce.  Possibly talking to his wife like a normal human being.  Her only options were work on APTX (can't really say how bad of an option that is, since we don't know its true intent) or die.

As for Akemi, I doubt Haibara knew that Akemi was trying to free her.  Like you said, Haibara knows the BO, and she also loves her sister, so there's no way that she would have let Akemi even try, especially because she knows how important she is to the BO.  Plus, she stated that the reason she refused to work was that she "demanded to know the reason behind her sister's death," but if she knew why she died from the start I don't think she would have phrased it like that.

I remembered reading that she knew of Akemi's plan somewhere. But maybe that's just a mistake on my part. Can't seem to find it D:
But I guess it's right that she wanted an explanation. So she probably didn't know.
Still I think she noticed Akemi's behavior, since she also seemed to know Rye and that he was Akemi's boyfriend. And she certainly knew he was in the BO (since Akai used the sisters to get into the BO in the first place). Meaning that Akemi got deeper into the BO. She also was in contact with Akemi, at least there was a scene where they were talking together somewhere.

Still, she was a prodigy in her studies and tried to finish the work that her parents did.
You wouldn't get so far when you weren't ambitious or had an aim too. Considering she's smart, she could just act as if she failed the classes and take much longer till she finishes her studies and then actually get's to a laboratory.
And she's a biochemist, a prodigy. She should know it could act as a poison. And she was long enough in the BO to know they most likely will use it for killing too.
Especially since medicine always have side effects.
So her not being able to forgive that guy seems just strange. Since she herself should know best how it is to be in a desperate situation and trying to flee from such hardships.

Of course, it's possible she could not be able to forgive that guy because she wouldn't be able to forgive herself if she hurt someone she loved or cared for. Projecting herself onto him kind of. But that's even more annoying then. Because with her suicidal behaviour and not sharing information she's just hurting and risking the lives of the people she cares for.

@Prof: What Pmofmalasia. Wasn't anything about forgiving Gin or Vermouth O_o

Edit:
Just reread the scene where Haibara get's introduced. She does say she didn't want to make a poison in the first place. But strangely, she also says that she started to dislike the Organization after they used her drug on humans and especially after they killed her sister. Does that mean she didn't mind the Organizations evildoing before? O_o She would have known that it's a dangerous Organization. Or is it just a strange translation?
But it wouldn't be so strange for her to accept the Organization, since she was born into it...
But then it's even stranger that she can't forgive that once husband. Maybe her character was modified a lot...

Edit2:
Chapter 179 page 11 Haibara says: "To take me out of the organization, my sister sister was deliberately involved in the Organization's activities."
So she did know about Akemi's plan :V

[Pmofmalasia]

I remembered reading that she knew of Akemi's plan somewhere. But maybe that's just a mistake on my part. Can't seem to find it D:
But I guess it's right that she wanted an explanation. So she probably didn't know.
Still I think she noticed Akemi's behavior, since she also seemed to know Rye and that he was Akemi's boyfriend. And she certainly knew he was in the BO (since Akai used the sisters to get into the BO in the first place). Meaning that Akemi got deeper into the BO. She also was in contact with Akemi, at least there was a scene where they were talking together somewhere.

Still, she was a prodigy in her studies and tried to finish the work that her parents did.
You wouldn't get so far when you weren't ambitious or had an aim too. Considering she's smart, she could just act as if she failed the classes and take much longer till she finishes her studies and then actually get's to a laboratory.
And she's a biochemist, a prodigy. She should know it could act as a poison. And she was long enough in the BO to know they most likely will use it for killing too.
Especially since medicine always have side effects.
So her not being able to forgive that guy seems just strange. Since she herself should know best how it is to be in a desperate situation and trying to flee from such hardships.

Of course, it's possible she could not be able to forgive that guy because she wouldn't be able to forgive herself if she hurt someone she loved or cared for. Projecting herself onto him kind of. But that's even more annoying then. Because with her suicidal behaviour and not sharing information she's just hurting and risking the lives of the people she cares for.

@Prof: What Pmofmalasia. Wasn't anything about forgiving Gin or Vermouth O_o

Edit:
Just reread the scene where Haibara get's introduced. She does say she didn't want to make a poison in the first place. But strangely, she also says that she started to dislike the Organization after they used her drug on humans and especially after they killed her sister. Does that mean she didn't mind the Organizations evildoing before? O_o She would have known that it's a dangerous Organization. Or is it just a strange translation?
But it wouldn't be so strange for her to accept the Organization, since she was born into it...
But then it's even stranger that she can't forgive that once husband. Maybe her character was modified a lot...

Edit2:
Chapter 179 page 11 Haibara says: "To take me out of the organization, my sister sister was deliberately involved in the Organization's activities."
So she did know about Akemi's plan :V

Well, it's a bit hard to discuss the morality of her research on the drug, since we don't yet know what it was intended to do.

Spoiler: manga spoilers

However, we do know from the Mystery Train arc that she didn't realize that it shouldn't have been made until she listened to her mother's tapes, so I think that its original intent could possibly have been seen as good, or at least not outright bad.

And I don't think she was ambitious in school because of the loyalty to the BO, but because she wanted to continue her parent's work.  Evidence of this would be that she didn't tell the BO about Shinichi being alive since he would be an interesting test subject, putting APTX's development ahead of the BO's survival.  As for how this relates to the husband, I still think that the difference between her situation and his is that he had other ways out, and she really didn't, other than death, which she chose after a while.  So from her perspective, as someone with really no way out, looking at someone who had multiple other ways out but chose to take the easy way that hurts people the most, I can see why she would have no sympathy for him.  It's like, for example, last semester I had to wake up at 6 AM for my classes, and sometimes my friends would complain about having to wake up at 8 and I would have no sympathy for them, since my situation was 'worse'.  Obviously not nearly as extreme as Haibara's situation, but maybe that will help show why I think Haibara acted the way she did.  Or maybe I'm just a terrible person and should have more sympathy towards my friends

As for Akemi, it's kind of hard to know what Haibara thought about Rye before Akemi's death.  We know she hates him for using her, but that was after his cover was blown, I don't think she ever talks about what advice she gave Akemi regarding him before that.  Maybe it will be revealed in a possible Akai/Haibara confrontation?  But it's hard to say right now.  As for knowing about Akemi's plan beforehand, it's hard to say from that quote you gave in the second edit, since she might have only found that out after Akemi died.  Then, during the flashback scene in which Akemi and Shiho are talking, Shiho says, "I heard you did something dangerous."  So it seems to me like she didn't really know everything that was going on, and considering that this was after Akemi met Conan (Akemi mentions Conan in the conversation) and before her death (obviously ), Shiho had a very short time to figure it out.  By this conversation, I think she was concerned about Akemi and would have tried to save her if she knew.  Even then it would be too late, though, since this would be after the robbery, since Akemi is already screwed at this point.  I suppose it depends on how you interpret Shiho's quote, but combined with her refusal to work I think she didn't know.

Also, I would agree that Haibara's character has been developed a lot, I'd argue more than any other character in the series.  I wouldn't say modified, since that implies that it was done without reason, and we can see some of the purposes behind developments that take place, such as when she is deciding whether or not to join the witness protection program.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Modified was maybe not the correct word. What I meant is, that she was more "cold-heart" at the beginning (being able to shoot a gun at someone and having those "cold eyes" sometimes etc). Sure she had character development and warmed up now. But now she completely lost her "cold-heart" or "survival instinct" that she seemed to have at the beginning. It's like it was never there from the start :x

It's not really that she doesn't have sympathy that bugs me. But more that she doesn't want to give that person a second chance while that person really regrets what he did. Plus in that case, it's better to let it slide.
Her thinking this time seems so childish, which doesn't fit her character at all. I can understand when the DB kids would say that... but Haibara? :/

[Pmofmalasia]

Modified was maybe not the correct word. What I meant is, that she was more "cold-heart" at the beginning (being able to shoot a gun at someone and having those "cold eyes" sometimes etc). Sure she had character development and warmed up now. But now she completely lost her "cold-heart" or "survival instinct" that she seemed to have at the beginning. It's like it was never there from the start :x

Yeah, I think that's definitely true.  Some of it could be attributed to character development, but now the "cold-hearted" aspect of her character seems relegated to messing with Conan sometimes.  Although part of this is because of the witness protection program thing I think.  Since before that it didn't really seem like she cared whether or not she lived or died, but now she does. 

Spoiler: Very Important manga spoilers, anime-only people don't read

And mayyyyyybe you could argue that it's there when she's talking to Amuro in the mystery train arc, but since that was actually Kid and she was in no danger at all it's a little bit different.

It's not really that she doesn't have sympathy that bugs me. But more that she doesn't want to give that person a second chance while that person really regrets what he did. Plus in that case, it's better to let it slide.
Her thinking this time seems so childish, which doesn't fit her character at all. I can understand when the DB kids would say that... but Haibara? :/

I don't know, I suppose I just agree with Haibara on forgiving him completely, so I don't see it as so childish.  I mean I understand that he regrets it and realizes what he did was wrong to the point that he wanted to kill himself over it, but I don't know if I would completely forgive him, since no matter how much you hate someone killing them is still pretty messed up.  But that's a whole 'nother debate.

[kkslider5552000]

Well your entire point then is that that case was stupid and only used for clumsy foreshadowing. That I agree with entirely.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Well your entire point then is that that case was stupid and only used for clumsy foreshadowing. That I agree with entirely.

Yes, with some other stuff too.

In short, she's sometimes used out of character "in favour" of a case and she does things she tells others not to do.

@Pmofmalasia: But I think you know what I mean now, right? That's just what bugs me on her character XD
Other characters are supposed to be annoying or naive for example. But for me that aspect doesn't fit haibara.

[Pmofmalasia]

Yup, I understand what you're saying